In reality I’d say it’s a group decision. Coach, physio and player have to decide (and possibly video analyst if there’s enough time to rewind the tape to and get word to the bench about what happened).
Can we sell injured players? Not totally sure on the rules around that, say if a big offer came in from a PL club or whoever and it was a serious bid?
We could sell a player with no legs or arms if we wanted and the buying club was crazy enough to go ahead.
Don't immediately see how we're even supposed to claim we can compete in games without JP, let alone have any chance of winning enough of them to remain in the playoff race. It's pretty devastating news whatever the time out, but if it's anything other than a couple of weeks (as heavily suggested here) it's a hammer blow.
Very bad news for him. Best wishes for a full recovery JP. For us I think the phrase rhymes with " clucking bell".
Definitely more severe than a Grade 1 tear so not 1-2 weeks, Grade 2 is if it's moderate / heavily damage to ligament which is 4-6 weeks. Grade 3 is full tear / bone damage then that's 3+ months. Don't get impression it's a full tear so hopefully only the 4-6 weeks.
I mean what are you basing your opinion on JP having more severe than Grade 1, but also not having a full tear on?!
Based on him not saying it isn't a full tear but ligament damage. Nobody knows until there's an official statement or Leventhal / Wobby report. Could be I'm wrong but we can only base on what's said and he hasn't said it's a tear, yet.
https://twitter.com/WatfordFC/status/1608416683659509761?t=r8XMXVE33U3fSSvXOLvnlA&s=19 Bilic confirms 6-8 weeks out.
Choudhury - ligament injury, sent back on, out for 6 weeks. JP - ligament injury, sent back on, out for 8 weeks. Pretty scandalous from the medical department and seriously needs dealing with. Obviously they can't do anything about the initial injury but both players received a good five minutes of treatment and broke down again within minutes of being back on the pitch. It's clear the initial assessment from the medical staff isn't good enough.
Whilst I somewhat agree, a standard doctors appointment lasts more than 5 mins and then a rough diagnosis is given. I think it’s a bit harsh to expect a physiotherapist to make a snap call about a player definitely not being able to continue when it’s an invisible injury such as ligament damage. I very much doubt a player is forced to play on against their will and it’s very likely both players wanted to try and see if they could carry on. I think the anger being shown at those allowing players to try and play on is a bit much really.
But what player is going to come off? Definitely not those two players! It's up to the medical department to look after these players and they've failed twice in quick succession.
As I said, I somewhat agree with you. I just think the depth of criticism is going a bit far. It's not really that 'scandalous' really. Just a couple of poor calls regarding players that were important to us to keep on if possible.
Probably a decision borne out of absolute fear about who else to bring on with such rubbish squad depth!
I'd assume them stating 6-8 weeks out would include the time to regain fitness - time being unable to play due to regaining fitness is still time out.
Plus part of the diagnosis process when it’s borderline surely involves whether they can play on or not. It’s a key indicator of the severity of an invisible injury and I’m sure they tell the player not to go heavy on it and start twisting, sprinting etc immediately. I could understand some frustration/anger if there was evidence either Choudhury or Pedro re-entering the pitch for a short while caused any extra harm (a bit like the TDB injury at Reading under Ivic) but there’s literally nothing like that. They trotted back on, earned Bilic time to sort out a replacement and then went off again. To me this it’s a nothingburger. Do we really want the physios to be so risk averse that every knock leads to us subbing players off? I doubt any of our many head coaches in recent years would want that…
Bilic himself has said he was happy with them trying to play on... “The light is there, but for now we have to survive and pick up the points we need, which isn’t easy. What I like is the attitude of the guys - which we saw with Choudhury and João Pedro attempting to play on when they were injured."
Cleverley was supposed to be out for a few weeks back in August. Based on our record, Pedro's 6-8 weeks likely to be 6-8 months.
Pedro went back on the pitch, hobbled about gingerly for 1 or 2 minutes and sat down. I think that was all part of the assessment process. It might seem like a primitive way to work, but pain analysis is key to diagnosis. I don’t think it is scandalous to allow a player back onto the pitch, unless he is told to play through the pain and ignore what his body is telling him.
I know you're not going to change your opinion – and that's fine – but this really isn't how it works. As @VictoryRoad says part of the diagnostic process is often to walk on it, jog on it, try turning. They weren't sent back into action and told they had to play on no matter what. Bottom line is, it's not always easy to assess the severity of an injury without doing a full examination. A scan is always required to assess the extent of a ligament injury anyway. Expecting the medical staff to be able diagnose ligament injuries without an ultrasound or MRI is pretty unreasonable. If they could see through skin and muscle why bother with expensive scanning equipment? Your gripe really only stands up if Choudhury's time out of action has suddenly leapt from two weeks to six weeks as a result of hobbling about for a couple of minutes, but it just won't have had any significant impact. Likewise JP – it's not like if he'd been carried off down the tunnel immediately he'd be back in a fortnight but now he tried to run on it he's out for eight weeks out. I know we're all looking for signs of incompetence and people to blame and it's frustrating that two of our best performers are now out until the spring but this really is the reddest of red herrings.
You're right about the first part, I'm a stubborn g!t! It was clear that Choudhury and JP couldn't even put pressure on the leg, in fact JP looked like he could barely stand up when he came back on. I understand they are vital players for us but there is a point where a player can no longer continue and from where I was sitting neither of them should have returned. I think I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with a lot of people on this one...
