Watford Fc 0-0 Plymouth Argyle - 12/08/2023

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Ybotcoombes, Aug 6, 2023.

  1. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

  2. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Decent game. Nice to be entertained and watch a hard working team two weeks in a row. Both teams will finish mid table.

    We need a 9.

    Bachmann will ensure my blood pressure stays high.

    Kone is dreadful.

    Martins looked like he was going to be dangerous at times but his end product was forgettable, wasn't surprised to see him hooked.

    Asprilla was lively.

    Two home league games, two committed performances, 4 goals scored and none conceded. Solid start.
     
  3. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Healey isn't the most physical though, neither is Bayo mind you, but he certainly seems more physical than Healey
     
  4. Lubaduck

    Lubaduck First Year Pro

    Anyone who scores against any teams rival is a hero to that team at that moment .
    Not sure if that Twitter account is run by football people
     
    lutonh8a likes this.
  5. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    it’s my local so planning on going , only an hour trip from Exeter though
     
  6. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    It’s called football away days so they probably very much are fans .

    Don’t think there was any sort of criticism tbh- they was more from some of the people commenting on the video.

    Think it was more the chanting of his name rather than celebrating Pedro scoring .
     
    Lubaduck likes this.
  7. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Shame to hear a smattering of booing from the Rookery at full time. Only a few but definitely audible. Our club has gone to **** in the last few years but so has some of our fanbase.
     
  8. Lubaduck

    Lubaduck First Year Pro

    Point taken .
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Nah. They were just cheering Hoet.
     
    lutonh8a, Hogg-DEENEY!!! and Heidar like this.
  10. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

    A lot of people were booing the ref for stopping right on 94 mins
     
  11. Harefield Yellow

    Harefield Yellow First Year Pro

    My first and most important 'tick box' at a match is to come away feeling I've not been short changed. That was a thoroughly entertaining game this afternoon, a nice late winner would have been the cherry on top.

    Football in the two home games (apart from the idiot in goal fannying about thinking he can play) has been lovely to watch. Good attacking ideas, and defenders (at last) who can actually defend. Hoedt was flawless today, and Porteous wasn't too shabby either. Whole team looks like it's been on the receiving end of some proper coaching since June. We know what an unpredictable b@stud of a division this, whether we will challenge or not who knows, but signs are it'll be a gazillion times more enjoyable than the turgid drivel we were served up last season.

    And Plymouth didn't look like a team who have just come up and are out of their depth either. On that showing they'll no problems picking up enough points to be well clear of trouble. Good luck to them.

    Can't remember when I last enjoyed a 0-0 that much.....
     
  12. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Our lack of scoring today isn't only down to Bayo - we had 20 shots today yet only 3 on target!!

    With Martins, Sema, Chakvetadze and Asprilla we have some fairly talented and tricky wide players, but none of them seem particularly great at shooting. Ince has a track record of scoring a decent amount at this level but is still missing.

    Ideally you'll want at least one of, if not both, of your wide players capable of regularly cutting inside and curling a finish in to the opposite corner - it's a move from which so many goals come from in modern football - yet none of the players we had on the pitch today are particularly adept at it except perhaps for Louza occasionally (and he's a CM and wasn't involved much today). Burnley last season got promoted in no small part due to Tella and Benson basically doing that same thing repeatedly.

    I don't recall Martins successfully scoring one. Chakvetadze when he came on last week tried a couple and wasn't too far off, but ultimately they sailed wide. And his scoring record last season wasn't great. Sema's shooting isn't particularly hot, and Asprilla's shooting is easily the worst part of his game currently.

    When we signed Ince I hoped he would more be a bench option, but now we could really do with someone with his shooting ability in the starting XI.

    Martins and Chak will also need to carry out some more shooting practice or our left flank is also going to be under productive.
     
  13. reids

    reids First Team

    I made this point somewhere else on the forum a few weeks ago (can't remember where) in that we lost a lot of goals from the wing with Sarr and JP (when he played on the wing at least..) leaving. Sema usually scores 4/5 in the Champ. Ince similar usually (last season was a one off). Martins only season in Brazil he scored 3 in the equivalent mins to 17 games but I can't really see him being a constant source of goals. Chak has never scored more than 5 in a season and that was in Belgium and Georgia, hardly the bastion of solid defences. Asprilla scored a few in Colombia but struggled in front of goal last season (was also v unlucky imo) but again - can't see him becoming a constant source of goals.

    If we could play them all at the same time we might be alright, but obviously we can't which does leave us with a deficit of goals to make up. I would've liked a goalscoring winger instead of one of them (probably Chak) to help in that regard.
     
    miked2006 likes this.
  14. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    There's a chance Ince could become that again this season, but otherwise I'd agree.

    Maybe Chak could improve in that area, but if not then for all his dazzling feet we could have wasted an opportunity by signing him. Most of the other left-sided wide forwards we were linked with before signing him had seemed to be fairly adept at the curling opposite corner finish.
     
  15. Leetanner

    Leetanner Academy Graduate

    As everyone has said above ,I also came away from the ground happy with a performance where you could see patterns of play and great effort ,just get the Wingers to work on there early cross into the box rather than way too many touches and wayward decision making
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  16. Gladiator

    Gladiator Academy Graduate

    Sick to death already of the **** Bachman is getting. “Idiot in goal thinking he can play” is fundamental to the style we are trying to adopt. Or did you prefer like last season when we lumped it upfield only for it to immediately come back and invite pressure??

    He’s not doing it because he suddenly fancies himself as a player. It’s completely central to the way we’re trying to play.

    Bach off him!!!
     
  17. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Final thought.

    For all the excitement surrounding Andrews, he really does make bad decisions in the final third. He seems obsessed with trying to score rather than set someone up. He did it against QPR and he done it again today. Numerous times the pass/cross/pull back was on, instead he shot trying to beat the GK at the near post.

    He really needs to be sat down and shown his decision making side of the game.
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  18. TomWatfordFC

    TomWatfordFC Reservist

    He's still a foetus. Plenty of time to develop that side of his game. Hopefully our new video analysis guy is half decent.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  19. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Wasn’t attacking the kid, but he’s got to work on that aspect big time. There was at least 3 times today where a better decision from him would have probably seen us score. I say probably because we have Bayo upfront so if it fell to him, well who knows.
     
  20. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    You can do it quicker than that if you try!
     
  21. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It’s not right, drawing at home to Plymouth. We are a fallen prem giant and the sooner we are back where we belong, the better :).
     
    põder likes this.
  22. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    Correct this is what I did as they were time wasting throughout stoppage time.
     
  23. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    It's fair to criticise Bachmann when he's passed it more than once to the opposition, especially under little pressure. But he also deserves credit for he also did well. He's looking to be a lot more positive in possesion trying to release it quicker. He took a very difficult catch from a corner in the first half, released it quickly and we countered dangerously. He also made a very fine close range save which he deserves fair credit for in the 2nd half. He is trying to play in the way the manager wants and it does have good effect for the team as whole because it opens up the space for players like Martins, Sema, Bayo etc to then exploit because we're drawing them onto us, so it's something I'm more willing to forgive when it will inevitably cost us eventually as it's necessary and what VI demands.

    Is he natural at it? No. He can play a higher line and he did sweep a few times, with one where he had to be high to bail out a poor backpass to him in the first half. I think Bachmann is adapting to that demand quite well. The problem is he's still having to actively think how to recieve the ball and where to play it when under some presure so his concentration occasionally lapses as it's clearly not a natural playstyle and that isn't his fault. He did it well quite a few times today though and he does strike me as someone who will strive to improve his game. Despite Bachmann's tendency to produce some histrionics at times, he does come across to me as someone who does genuinely care because there have been times where he's really grated with how he interviews sometimes with a very bullish attitude at times, only to then be mxied with some good introspection.

    I would argue there aren't a huge amount of goalkeepers available at this level who could sweep, shot stop and box command without paying a significant fee we can't afford if we want a new ST and ideally a new CDM and a goal scoring winger too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
    Ybotcoombes, sherwood, reids and 8 others like this.
  24. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    Good performance, would have won that game if we had a proper center forward as we got in hold positions throughout but unfortunately we are relying on Bayo as our main man. Seemed like Plymouth tried to cut out our avenues to Imran Louza although he almost scored another excellent goal hitting the woodwork from range. Martin's and Asprilla rang rings around the Plymouth left back. I'm not going to blame Baachman as he is only trying to play the way the manager wants him to play bit we should have brought a goalkeeper in that isn't completely incapable of playing with his feet if that is how Valerin Ismael wants us to play. I did notice VI giving him advice from the sideline when he made the first couple of eras, which I thought was good to see. Should have won but still weak in areas we all know need improving.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
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  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Agree with this especially where you’re praising him, as there are very few fans that paint a balanced view of his performance. That catch and throwout was a top drawer move for example.

    But I disagree there aren’t better ball playing keepers we could get. He’s not even average. He is guaranteeing every opponent two free shots per match. I’m sure Udinese could ship over one of their stock if they so wished.

    I’ve never really got the angst towards him though. He’s a fantastic shot stopper who needs to work on other basic aspects of goalkeeping. Now he’s being tasked with outfield play as well. It’s not going to happen. This is the big problem with having Bachmann playing a sweeper role.

    Maybe it would be better to ask an outfield player to play in goal? It would be a novel idea. I think Hoet or Sierralta would be good at this.
     
  26. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    I play 6-a-side and need players to take any goalkick that involves putting height and accuracy on the ball. If it's anything more than a simple ground pass then I struggle with that quite badly, so this is speaking from experience. It that takes away options outfield to play to, means you're impacting the starting shape of plays and also signals to the opposition to press the keeper harder because they're clearly not comfortable with the ball. In Non-League that would be considered something obvious to exploit and would give a manager headaches to negate. In the Championship, unless the keeper is injured but can't be subbed off then it's even more so. Hoedt was imperious today and he did so much good because he wasn't constrained to the goalline having to bail the keeper's bad passing. Imagine the impact that would have had over the 90 minutes.

    I agree with this. There will be better options out there but we don't have the funds to change this nor do we seem to have the desire to given we gave Bachmann a new long term contract. I think we're instead looking to develop him over the Season on this which also seems to be VI's desire s it does seem like we're aligning to his needs for the squad rebuild. This will cost points, I would say 5-7 over the Season.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  27. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Was impressed again with Andrew’s and to a lesser amount Morris, they are growing in maturity with every game, however they need to improve on their final balls when attacking, Andrew’s badly wants to score his first goal (it will come but doesn’t have to be the first of the match) and Morris needs to improve on his crossing.

    I thought we were very unlucky in front of goal, today we could have done with a sloppy deflected off the back of defender type goal but nothing fell for us!
     
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  28. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Or perhaps "Poison Ivy"?
     
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  29. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    Morris has really matured the tail end of last Season and start of this one. Andrews I feel is still showing some natural immanturity in decision making and final balls. He's got a really good base to work with though as he's athletic, got a good touch and good attacking and defensive instict. He will improve.
     
    NWH likes this.
  30. NWH

    NWH Academy Graduate

    Very much agree! Really encouraging performance.

    That said I liked Sierrelta today. Looked accomplished in that position. Striker most definitely needed but another winger to support Martin's wouldn't go amiss (priority above DM)
     
    Markoa$ likes this.
  31. NWH

    NWH Academy Graduate


    Agree regarding Morris but his crossing is generally woeful. An area to improve especially given how important full backs are to the attack within our current approach!
     
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  32. NWH

    NWH Academy Graduate

    Really pleased overall. For the first time in a long time we have a clear pattern of play and an intensity that is so refreshing to watch.

    Yes we will make mistakes and concede silly goals but isn't it great to be excited by the potential of the team for a change.

    Some cracking passages of play and only a few players short of a fine side.

    Fair play to VI to stamping his identity on the team so early!
     
  33. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Lewis will presumably take over at LB when fit and ready.

    Morris might even pick up a few pointers from him over the season.
     
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  34. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    I think this is probably correct, and I hope this improves, and I am sure it will over time. I thought he was excellent defensively today; before the game, there was plenty of hype about that Mulumbu fella, but Andrews had him in his pocket, and he was even brought off not long after being booked for a tackle on Andrews after RA had skinned him down the line.
     
    Markoa$ likes this.
  35. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    I recently blocked the away days pages, it seems to represent most things I hate about modern football culture and is largely followed by teenagers who wear fake stone Island bought by their parents.
     
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