Ukraine - Catalyst For Ww3

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by AndrewH63, Feb 11, 2022.

  1. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Russian's apparently withdrawn from Kherson. The puppet governor killed 'in a car crash'.

    Russia's only Oblast capital taken since the start of the war has now been lost.

    We'll see soon if it is a trap, as it feels too good to be true, but if not that is a monumental feat by Ukraine and a significant milestone in the war.
     
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  2. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Stremousov, the collaborator Russian Proxy Governor, has been awarded a posthumous medal of honour by Putin.

    Peak Putin Stalinism. Dispose of those who have outlived their usefulness and then give them an award.

    The withdrawal from Kherson is the prelude to the endgame. It may be a while yet (although it could be very rapid) and the Russian State may have much bloodshed and dirty tricks up its sleeve, but eventually the war effort will cease. At that point the regime is in trouble and civil war may follow. This will have tremendous consequences well beyond Russia’s borders.
     
  3. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Would never happen over here thankfully:

    [​IMG]

    upload_2022-11-10_19-26-25.jpeg
     
  4. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Jeez @Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, just watched the BBC news at 10 and can’t believe their bias! They just showed footage of the Nova Krakova dam blowing itself up and in a completely unsarcastic tone they said ‘it’s not clear who was responsible’…
     
  5. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    At least it didn't throw itself out of a window.
     
    Moose likes this.
  6. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Yes I did notice that. They also seemed to hint at some possible winter difficulties for the Ukrainians, which surprised me very much. I'd understood from previous reports that it had been an unbroken run of wonderful and amazing military triumphs from the saintly Ukrainians, while the cowardly Russians either died or fled at the first sign of conflict, leaving all their equipment behind. I did note also the BBC's disappointment that thousands of Russian troops had been withdrawn across some river rather than being killed. Awwwww! Spoilsports!

    I would suppose Hitler and Napoleon's news reports were equally triumphant about their marvellous progress against the Russians. I don't think they ought to be counted out just yet.
     
  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    It’s hardly surprising that the war has progressed in this fashion. The Ukranians are fighting against national annihilation. That gives the upper hand in motivation against a Russian Army who the Russian State itself says it has bolstered with convicts and reservists.

    Many Russian soldiers have been away from home for more than six months. They signed up to a quick win and a bit of looting. Winter is coming and so is the now well supplied Ukranian Army. A frightening prospect meeting the defenders of a Country that you have brutalised.

    The only success Russia is having is by flattening things. The only reason they cannot be counted out is because they possess a lot of things to flatten things. But in the end, how will they hold that territory in perpetuity?
     
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  8. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    I don't think the Russian tactic of targeting civilian infrastructure will work either. History has taught us that, in general, attacking civilians and non-military infrastructure tends to strengthen a nations resolve not diminish it.
     
    UEA_Hornet, Lloyd and Moose like this.
  9. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Russia has now become an international pariah. We should view them in the same way that we view countries like Iran and North Korea.

    It’s a shame as it is a beautiful country and the people I met when I travelled there were exceedingly pleasant, particularly away from the cities.

    Until the regime is toppled I can’t see normality returning. Unfortunately it is not just one man, he is backed by his cronies and there are many of them.

    It’s such a shame as the majority of the Russian people don’t deserve the embarrassment and shame they are being forced to endure on this international stage.
     
    Otter likes this.
  10. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Indeed, if you look through history the targeting of non military infrastructure usually only succeeds in promoting a stronger sense of resilience amongst the targets. The blitz, the bombing of Berlin, the annihilation of Dresden. None succeeded, but all strengthened the resolve of the bombed.

    Interestingly the only time really that bombing civilian infrastructure has successfully ended a conflict was at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, however it still required two nuclear bombs and the threat of more for Japan to capitulate.

    Targeted bombing of military infrastructure is a more legitimate means to and end, however I’m not convinced the Russians have the means or technology to do so.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  11. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Or, TBH, the desire.
     
  12. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Well hopefully not, I’m just not convinced that the mad man would not press the button as a matter of last resort.
     
  13. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I was saying I doubt the Russians really want to use ‘targeted’ strikes; they’re quite happy hitting anything and everything.
     
  14. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  15. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Filbert likes this.
  16. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

  17. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Ukraine appears to have its sights set on Crimea with a sea landing along the Kinburn peninsula.
     
  18. V Crabro

    V Crabro Reservist

    Great to see the Ukrainian flag flying again in Kherson.........

    upload_2022-11-14_20-48-1.png
     
  19. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  20. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  21. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Disgusting to even think such a thing. It really underlines how desperate and devoid of ideas they really are now.
     
    Moose likes this.
  22. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Andrii sums up the word "joy":

    Screenshot 2022-11-15 at 14-51-33 Arman Soldin on Twitter.png

    https://twitter.com/ArmanSoldin/status/1591842854527197186

    As as an aside, Andrii may actually be a student as I think Ukraine retained the 'old' Soviet higher-education route: bachelors degree (4 years), masters degree (at least 1 year), 'candidate' (1+3 years, equivalent to our PhD) and 'habilitated doctor" (a post-doctoral degree of at least 3 years with rigid stipulations for academic publications - necessary to be appointed as a lecturer/professor in a university).
     
  23. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Vice report on Crimea/Ukraine from 2017-2018:

     
  24. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Russian missiles attacking residential buildings in Kyiv and elsewhere across Ukraine today.

    Random attacks to punish and terrorise.

    I believe Ukraine has hit the Crimean Naval base previously and a military target near the border. But there is no equivalent targeting of Russia. Russian people are only dying in this conflict if Russia sends them into Ukraine to fight. It’s a fundamental difference.
     
  25. V Crabro

    V Crabro Reservist

    It's being reported that 2 people have been killed by a Russian missile in Poland.......
     
  26. Heidar

    Heidar Squad Player

    I think we all know how this will end - Kyiv will be a burning hole in the ground.

    But we will fight them with condemnation, thoughts and prayers.
     
  27. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Good god…are we all to die for Danzig?

    Will this be viewed as an attack on NATO? Probably not, but it’s a scary thought how close we currently are to escalation in this conflict.

    On a comforting side it appears that Russia are not great at hitting their targets.
     
  28. Heidar

    Heidar Squad Player

    Although as Malaysia Flight 17 found, they're pretty accurate at hitting the wrong target.

    Another crime they appear to have escaped punishment for.
     
  29. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Looking far from clear what has happened here. It could easily be a Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile(s) that landed in Poland.

    Equally, Russia, as I posted before, have been using these S300 missiles to attack land targets recently so it could be one(or more) of theirs.

    Hopefully the will be a considered NATO response.
     
  30. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Julia Davis (born 16 May 1974)[1] is a Ukrainian-born American journalist

    Ukrainian AND the dandiest of Yankee Doodles to boot.

    We can be absolutely sure that what she says is absolute fact then.
     
  31. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player


    Gord bless those Ukrainians. They really are whiter than white.

    Those precision bombs of theirs only ever take out the bad guys! Just like ours do...



    I really am quite surprised you implicitly believe all this stuff without the slightest questioning
     
  32. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player


    No, no. It has already been decided.

    It's the evil Russians to blame.

    And let's hear no more about it!
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  33. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Sounds like WW3 averted for another day. Putin genuinely running out of road and international support now. Deciding to bomb at the start of the G20 condemnation not going to get the cowering he hopes from them. Someone needs yo take him out.
     
  34. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Well as she's *just* translating TV clips (and does a pretty good job of it - better than my very rusty Russian)...

    I thought you were better than "...shoot the messenger not the message...".
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  35. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I’m surprised that as a socialist you don’t get this either.

    My support for Ukraine is not because I consider them superior human beings. There are clearly some very unpleasant undercurrents in Ukraine and the Ukrainians will also do a lot of bad things, tell mistruths to win the war. Anyone would.

    The reason I support them is that Russia is an imperialist power, attempting by extreme cruelty to interfere with and dominate a smaller nation. In doing so it breaches one of the central tenets of Marxism, that the working class of one country should not injure the working class of another.

    The Russian regime is fascist. It undertakes state acts of murder and terrorism, poisons political opponents and there is no free media. It sponsors other terrorist regimes like Iran that brutalise its peoples. (And sure, so does the US. But that’s not the point here).

    If Russia’s advocates were so concerned about Nazis in Ukraine, they would demand that Russia gets rid of its own outright Nazis and stops backing Ukrainian separatists. Because it’s the prescence and work of those that inspire a defensive nationalism in Ukraine. That defensive nationalism is not a reason to invade anymore than Saddam Hussein being a torturer of thousands was good enough to justify the Iraq war.

    And the cost? Towards 100k of mostly ethnic minority Russian soldiers killed. A similar number of Ukrainian troops and tens of thousands of civilians dead, with millions exiled or ethnically cleansed. From an area that didn’t even have a Russian majority.

    So no, I don’t need to see phoney, Russian sponsored ‘balance’ even if I don’t believe everything I hear.
     

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