Hopefully the UK will wake up to the real quislings and Lord Haw Haws and reflect. I won't hold my breath. Matthew Elliott, Koch Foundation linked founder of Conservative Friends of Russia
Do you mean the EU capitulators who have already tried to undermine UK democracy? You may not see it, but it is pretty clear from this site who sees the UK as a sovereign power, and who sees us as a natural vassel of a continental super power. You need to start thinking of us as an independent nation before you start suggesting we are being infiltrated by another political bloc. Patently that happened fifty years ago, and we are still extracting ourselves from that odious mess.
So I see Putin is using the old nazi we are invading to demilitarise our neighbour excuse. Anyway the West won’t do much for now, but will give him confidence to pick another fight with a NATO member. i do think though the West could now say to their citizens. Time to leave Russia. It’s not safe, and we won’t be able to save you. And to Russians no more non essential travel, no buying and selling of assets until Putin removes his forces. No shopping trips, no holidays in the Med, no children attending universities. In fact I would even announce that Russians citizens should be aware that NATO member states may require them to leave and to return to Russia, if the invasion does not stop. The only no military intervention that might stop Russian military action would be if Biden, Macron and Johnson all fly to Kiev tonight as a sign of solidarity to hold an emergency meeting with the Ukrainian government. Would take both political and human courage to make that act. I doubt Putin would risk an attack on Kiev with NATO leaders on site.
Finland and Sweden should be offered immediate membership of NATO (they are already EU members, so they can probably meet all the criteria). They might turn it down, but just relying on sanctions is not going to have any effect on Putin.
Telling choice of term in the context of long-standing 'distaste' amongst certain elements in Russia at the initial enthusiasm exhibited by some parts of the Ukrainian population towards the German invaders, who they hoped would 'liberate' Ukraine from the USSR. Not that the enthusiasm lasted long when they realised the Nazis viewed them also as untermenschen worthy of no humane treatment. But the fact it occurred at all still rankles, especially in the Russian military.
I agree about booting out the oligarchs and Putin cronies and their immediate family members right away and freezing all their assets. I'd also put all other Russian citizens in the UK and mainland Europe on 90 days notice that they will be summarily deported unless Putin's army retreats, compensation is paid and Ukraine's territorial sovereignty is reinstated in full.
Especially Finland...it was part of the Russian Empire (1809-1917) & then fought the Winter War with USSR in 1939-40; it wasn't totally defeated but had to agree to ceding territory to USSR. In an attempt to regain that territory, Finland aligned itself with Germany from 1940-44 although it never formally joined the Axis. There's no doubt some members of the Russian political-military elite still harbour longings to reabsorb the 3 Baltic SSRs, whilst their attitude towards Finland may be more nuanced, but still not all that friendly!
Agreed - if we are "at war" with Russia (even if only a war by proxy) we do not need to entertain a fifth column. By "Russian citizen" I would also include those with dual nationality.
Not those who left because of the regime? Regarding all of the properties in the UK owned by the oligarchs and cronies, I'd love it if they set up legislation to go through parliament immediately to not just freeze assets, but to seize them.
Invading more of Ukraine is one thing - NATO/the EU/the West can only offer diplomacy and monetary/material support. The minute one Russian soldier crosses onto NATO territory that changes everything. Remember Turkey and the Russian response to Turkey blowing one of it jets out of the air... Nothing.
Ukraine has fascists (as detailed earlier in the thread) and the West should make clear its distaste for those militia and make their disbanding a condition of any possible further integration. But that’s an obviously dodgy pretext coming from someone so keen to use a fascist play book as Putin.
Dunno. The Baltic Republics are non-Slav (culturally and linguistically)and non-Orthodox. I always thought that Latvia would the flashpoint as Latvians were ethnically a minority in their own country and the Latvian government really went out of its way to treat its Russo-Latvian population shabbily - it actually declared them as 2nd class citizens (Estonia, 50+% of the population ethnic Estonian, 'merely' enacted some extremely stringent language requirements and 'advised' the Russo-Estonian population to move to Narva). Lithuania was far more ethnically mixed (Russian, Polish and Byelorussian making up about 15% of the population) with the Russians mainly settled in the capital, Ignalina (site of the country's nuclear reactor) and the port of Klaipeda (for work reasons).
They're a very media-friendly minority - little more than a collection of deadbeats, psychos, fkups and loonies. Much the same as the EDL (or whomever that **** Tommy Robinson's bilking this week) except they have access to proper guns.
It'll be interesting to see if any MPs, or other leading Tories, attend the "Conservative Friends of Russia" conference next week. I guess that they will if there is enough roubles in it for them.... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/da...westminster-russia-forum-unregulated-ukraine/
Putin isn't going to pick a fight with a NATO member. For all else that NATO might be, it's first and foremost a defensive pact. Declare war on a NATO country and all the others are bound by treaty to declare war on the aggressor in turn, and provide military aid to the attacked member. Putin would have to be insane to poke that particular bear. Modern Russia's military isn't what it once was, no matter how hard the Russians might pretend otherwise. Much of it is very outdated. Is it enough to cause Ukraine issues? For sure. Could they hope to take on NATO? No chance whatsoever.
They can apply for British citizenship or seek asylum. If you have left because of Putin, fair enough you should have a chance to explain why you no longer are safe to go back. Safe harbour for dissidents. You need to know who they are and check their stories, keep tabs on them. Not doing that a 100 years ago got us into this mess, remember the fifth congress of 1907. Frankly as Putin showed with his assassinations on UK soil and shooting down the airliner - if he wants to get you he probably can.
Well he might pick a fight which does not include direct military intervention. A cyber war. After all Russia has form now on this. Through his proxy Belarus he has started testing the Polish border. Once Ukraine is annexed into Russian Federation he has a military border with Slovakia, Poland and Romania. The Baltic states must be next on the list for intimidation.
Speaking to friends and family in Vilnius on Sunday the 'flood' of refugees trying to cross the Lithuania-Belarus has turned into a 'tsunami'.
We should definitely start cultural sanctions. No further participation by Russia and Belarus teams nationals in European sporting competitions, no more Eurovision participation, ban tours by Russian performers,etc. The West should now impound all Russian owned shipping and civilian aircraft in its territory. Ban imports of Russian goods. They second east largest by value to Europe are Pearls at $22billion - hardly an essential. Of course energy at $67 billion is going to hit us too!
Practising for years or putting your full efforts into it? I am sure they can sustain a longer more wilful campaign.
That'd be nice, but since Russia has already hosted a World Cup subsequent to Annexing Crimea, I won't hold my breath. Having said that, there are rumours UEFA is going to strip them of the Champions League final so perhaps there is some hope.
Russian state actors masquerading as independent groups are highly active, and responsible for an enormous percentage of cybersecurity attacks tracked by cybersecurity companies. Graceful Spider, Primitive Bear, Wizard Spider, Carbon Spider, Salty Spider, Mummy Spider, Alchemist Spider, and the notorious Cozy Bear are just a fraction of the actively tracked groups labeled as cybersecurity threats with direct ties to the Russian Federation. For example, Graceful Spider was behind the Serv-U exploit of Solarwinds software that you might have heard of a while back. Solarwinds have enormous global reach, including software on US government computers, so the data they compromised was potentially very serious. Similarly, Wizard Spider was behind the attack on the Irish health service executive a short while ago. The Russian state gives these groups carte blanche to attack and operate provided they don't hit Russian targets, and is suspected of providing direct support to a significant number of the groups.
Do yourselves a favour and dont get sucked into this Cabal planned drama. WW3 isnt going to happen, they need people to serve them and destroying everything makes no sense, food supply chain would be gone and you are ****ed in any new WW no matter how much money you have. **** them for playing their little games with us. All I see are children playing soldiers, pathetic.
I hope this has the result of exposing all those who have accepted Russian money and all of those who have used their influence on behalf of Putin or the oligarchs. We also need to scrap the rules that allow any crook with a million pounds to set up here and worm their way in. Their presence is not ‘good for the economy’ if they are not fit and proper persons. They disadvantage the rest of us. I really hope this whole episode is an earthquake under Putin and his populist supporters in the West.
Stating the obvious, I know, but the reports and images coming out of Ukraine are absolutely heart breaking.
