Given that I live in America and am a US citizen living a short distance away from the area I think I'm more than entitled to venture my opinion, thanks.
Wasn't aware of that, fair enough. I have American friends via forums I used to frequent who seem to think the jury reached the right result. I can't understand why you think differently to the jury and almost everyone I've seen write about this unless it's some political thing?
No, we are saying it’s wrong in principle. Like we would say cases in Saudi or Iran are often wrong in principle even if the law is apparently followed. If you have ludicrous laws in those Countries, like when women couldn’t drive in Saudi, you wouldn’t applaud the participants for following the judge’s direction. But even on its own terms it’s subject to challenge for the reasons Arakel gave. Throwing yourself heavily armed into a fight that wasn’t yours is looking for a fight. The whole World can see that.
Totally agree. There are plenty of actions around the world that are legal under the local jurisdiction but morally wrong. Going into a an area of social unrest fully armed is akin, imho, to drink driving. You may not have intended to injure anyone but the choice you made to put yourself in that position makes you culpable imho.
I guess that determines whether it is manslaughter or murder. Either way I think the deaths are directly down to the choices he made and he should be held responsible for them. The US law around guns is nuts.
But the guy didn't fire a shot until he was under attack? Haha, well we do tend to move through life with friends with similar opinions I suppose, (in the main). Even in a simple arson case I was involved in we didn't have a unanimous verdict, so in this case they're all convinced 100% which I why I'm asking.
Yeah, but I was on a jury and that’s also changed my mind a little about how they work. We let one guy off who even I, Mr Bleeding Heart, thought was obviously guilty (and I said so), but a couple of jurors didn’t like the Police and refused to believe a word. Equally, I therefore believe you could find 12 white folk in a pro carry state who would believe any effing ******** put their way for a poor white gun carrier. As for under attack, that’s sophistry. Don’t go into a crowd with your gun and take them on. It’s only under attack if you completely see things from his POV only. They only had their fists and a skateboard anyway. He’s truly only under attack after shooting an unarmed person. And most people would have attacked him at that point. He was a real and present threat to them.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread so I'll leave it with these parting words. I wouldn't attack someone who's holding an assault rifle, legally or not
Would you expect them to defend themselves is the question the jury were asked. You would have been running around attacking an awful lot of people that night, including a 14-15 year old black girl and her father. But why would you attack, unprovoked, a guy with an assault rifle. It doesn't make any sense. Please try to explain your thinking in dojng something that would almost certainly lead any innocent party, carrying an assault rifle (the AR in AR15 stands for Armalite Rifle by the way), to legally defend themselves from your rather senseless assault.
Well, he didn't take them on either, otherwise the jury were instructed to find that his assailants had been provoked. He truly was attacked by the unarmed child rapist who had threatened to kill him less than an hour earlier, and who chased him forty yards before lunging for his gun. Or as the nearest witness said, 'he shouted f*** you and went for Rittenhouse's gun'. Doesn't matter what anyone says. The video evidence shows it in stark clarity. The only people who are going to believe this rhetoric, are the same people who accepted the lies about crossing state lines with a gun, that Rittenhouse was spraying bullets into the crowd, and that all the people he shot were black. I don't know about you guys. but I would be more angry with the press who had so blatantly lied to me, than I would about scrabbling for another excuse to condemn Rittenhouse. PS, I've been on a jury too. We just stuck to the law.
Incorrect. He only fired on people who attacked him, and ceased firing when they were no longer a threat to him. He only raised his gun on people bearing down on him, and on at least two occassions lowered his weapon when his asssilants indicated they were backing off. One of those was Grosskreutz, who, when Rittenhouse lowered his gun and looked away, then advanced on him and pointed the Glock at his head. He had thirty shots in the magazine, and the eight he fired were all directed at people attacking him. It is even arguable that if Huber had not dragged Rittenhouse's gun directing it towards his own chest, that he would be alive today. Problem is, again, that anyone can see this play out in real time and slow motion on the same videos that the jury got to see and consider for three days. Even very serious lefties are calling out the press on this.
Is this a comedy post or a genuine comment? Even broadcasters on CNN and the Young Turks have come out and said “wow, we didn’t know this until the trial” (in CNN’s case, to cover the fact their lies about state lines, billions of bullets and black victims were being mercilessly exposed, and with the Young Turks, a genuine, WTF, this is what really happened moment) despite the videos being available within days of Rittenhouse being attacked. If you are not aware of this, perhaps it would be more appropriate to ask. Where are you looking? Think I’m making it up… That is the Young Turks, a bit like Navarro media over here. They don’t like what he did though. But then, who gives a s*** what broadcasters who try to say the Waukesha Christmas Parade massacre (there is no other way to describe it) was an accident? Vile disgusting pieces of media rubbish that are finally having their hate filled politicking laid bare. Anyone who clings to their lies and BS to validate their own beliefs only have themselves to blame for not being taken seriously.
So, why would they not debate the matter, especially if it would be a sure fire slam dunk on Trump, who would not even be there to debate it? Possibly for the same reason they did not co-operate with any investigation, court case or audit. Every chance the Dems and RINO's have had to show just how clean the election was, they have refused to take. Russiagate was a lie, the 6 Jan 'Deadly Insurrection' was an unarmed mass trespass, Rittenhouse defended himself, etc.. Those turds never got flushed away, yet Clinton destroyed an illegal email server which she was using for official communications that should have been accountable, Clinton paid for the 'Steel Dossier' which turned out to be a pack of lies, there are more kids in cages on the boarder now than there has ever been, the US economy is going to poop, Hunter Biden was getting paid millions for being Joe's son (and mentions putting a large proportion of it aside for "the Big Man", and Joe admitted on video that he agressively blackmailed the Ukraine to get rid of a prosecutor who was looking into the company for which Hunter was working, in the Ukraine (where he did not speak the lingo, did not live in the country, and had zero experience in the business he was employed). Trump's a bit of a turd, yes. But compared to Biden and his elitist Democrat buddies, he smells of lilacs and buttercups. Refs: Scant evidence of insurrection on 6 Jan: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ex...ol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/ Steele dossier paid for by Clinton: No a single direct source, but, starting with the notoriously delayed UK Russia Report, in which it was revealed that Steele had been paid by a firm called Fusion GPS, and subsequently Fusion's was shown to be in the pay of the Clinton 2016 campaign Schiff calls for prosecution of the people he relied on to lie to him in the Clinton commissioned Steel Dossier: https://jonathanturley.org/2021/11/...ier-after-attacking-the-durham-investigation/ Kids in cages: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Abolish-ICE-fan-club-shouldnt-surprised.html Hunter Biden's laptop: https://www.nationalreview.com/news...hunter-biden-laptop-story-is-unsubstantiated/ Biden blackmails the Ukraine (in an almost identical manner to that which the Democrats attempted to impeach Trump over), protecting his son's Ukrainian employers: Surely, at some point, some of these guys are going to start asking the obvious question....
I heard something on a podcast that detailed the Sovereign Citizen 'defence' that some of those being 'done' for the January fun and games at the Capitol. Pauline "...bring Nancy Pelosi out here now… we want to hang that ****king b**ch" Bauer sounds as though she's more need of a psychiatric intervention than a court case....
Revealed as true what some had already suspected, that Trump had tested positive for Covid before taking to the stage to debate Joe Biden for the first time. Trump took a second test which gave a negative and pressed on with his schedule but then a few days later he announced he had Covid. An astonishing action to fail to provide full disclosure and put at risk production staff and Biden. Given what he said himself about Biden’s health it’s like he was happy for the virus to take his opponent out. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news..._medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1638338714
Full disclosure tonight in this year's must (not) see television: I thought it was t1ts that came in pairs not c**ts.
Very interesting (and long) article about a couple who were '2nd tier' (useful idiots?) members of the MAGA/Trumptrain hierarchy: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/11/19/dustin-stockton-jen-lawrence-trump-profile-522823 TV summary:
I have to ask if you watched it, because the TV summary you link to above shows a video of ‘Clyde’ saying something along the lines of “we’ll see if it goes to the Supreme Court” which is a reference to the same type of due process that the Democrats attempted to trigger at the equivalent vote count held for the 2016 election. Oh yes they (the Democrats) did attempt to do exactly the same thing being described by ‘Clyde’ in January 2017, I believe it was justified by the latterly disproven fake claim of Russian collusion (and, oh yes, it was disproven to the extent of showing the Clinton campaign colluding with Russians to build the fake narrative - there are prosecutions going on right now). Your summary’s most damning assessment is that ‘Bonnie and Clyde’ were vaguely involved in organising an un-permitted March to the Capitol. That is exactly how damning it got. It’s called a protest, and permitted or not, it was telegraphed for days before it happened, and Trump can be heard in his speech saying ‘go peacefully to the Capitol’. Even I was expecting to hear something spicy in the video, after your introduction, but this was literally a case of accusing people of organising a peaceful protest. They don’t even link them directly to either the ‘siege ’, ‘insurrection’ or the police organised (watch the videos) tour of the Capitol, presumably because if they do make such accusations, they will open themselves up to law suits. This video really is weak, and any neutral watching it will come away wondering why these people are being so obliquely connected to what only Joe Biden and MSNBC would still call a deadly insurrection (remembering that the only person who died on the day was an unarmed protester shot without warning by a security officer). The Democrats are losing their moment, they can’t find any evidence, and this video shows that in stark detail. Will people supporting the Democrats never tire of being lied to, and having to cope with their naivety being laid bare, by having to defend blatantly obvious lies. I wonder if the Rittenhouse trial has pushed some people’s suspended reality just a little too far. The more cerebral and ‘conversational’ lefties on the forum seem to be leaving these arguments well alone. That may be very telling.
In the meantime and just after another school shooting, Merry Christmas from your Republican Congressman.
The lack of any self awareness is absurd . But this is what happens when people live in echo chambers
There is an hysterical reaction to, what some perceive, as restraint on their freedoms or threat to their way of live. You see it in the US in this worship of guns and Covid denial. The rates of vaccine rejection in somewhere like Texas are astonishing and people are dying.
From time to time there will be a news story and photograph about someone from the USA , usually, who is proudly beaming in front of a dead Giraffe that they have killed . And because they only mix with like minded characters they think that the above is acceptable. Which is my point about living in a bubble\echo chamber and not listening to other points of view.
Biden gives a speech warning that defeat of his voting bill left him asking people, do you want to be on the side of George Wallace (Democrat) or George Washington (Republican). Five minutes later, peolle are quoting news articles from the 1970s and 80s, in which Biden praises George Wallace, and uses is friendship with the pro segregation former Governor of Alabama, including being presented with an award from him and commenting on how Wallace described him (Biden) as one of the best young politicians in the Democrat party, when on the campaign trail. Biden was electioneering in the south at the time, so you would have to take into account his propensity to lie through his teeth for his ambitions, but that still doesn't make it a good thing. He was dropped from his Presidential Nomination campaign in the eighties because he told a BS story about growing up in a mining community. Turned out he was using, literally, one of Neil Kinnocks speeches to present himself in a better light when campaigning in mining communities. He is a serious terd. His popularity is through the floor, and he has not even been President a year. And his VP is even less popular. The shelves in America are empty. Inflation is running at 7%. The country is producing less jobs than expected, but that is OK, because even less people are applying for them. He has issued more executive orders than any other president, despite having described Trump as a dictator for the XOs he issued. Everything they said Trump is, is exactly what they wished for when they voted this guy in. And finally they have charged someone, or eleven someones, with something resembling insurrection. Apparently they were intending to take the United states armed only, as the indictment describes, with a dog and a large stick. Funny though, Ray Epps, the guy that was urging people to enter the Capitol on 6 Jan, was a member of the Oath Keepers group that these eleven men were members of. But he does not face any charges. Apparently someone had a chat with Ray, and he said he didn't have anything to do with it, so he couldn't possibly have been involved. That's a bit like Boris saying he never socialises, and people taking him at his word. As the Trump suppoerters that saw him on 5 and 6 Jan said, 'Fed, Fed, Fed.' People really got what they wished for with Biden.
News of a peculiar anomally in the US reaches the outside world. A few months ago, the NSBA (National School Board Association), an independant organisation, wrote a letter to the Attorney General describing very angry parents complaining at school board meetings as domestic terrorists. This included one chap who ended up getting arrested because he was upset because his daughter got raped by a male student wearing a skirt in a girls toilet at the school, against whom minimal action was taken, and who went on to sexually assault another girl at another school. The FBI replied to the NSBA reassuring them that such domestic terrorism would not be tolerated and that pre-emptive action would be taken. The public was outraged that angry parents would be labelled as terrorists for talking out against exacrable behaviour by schools, predominantly complaining about Democrat sponsored use of racist (yep, even the 'black' parents call it racist) CRT methods to poison the minds of their children and create next generation segregation, Anyway, a short while later, the NSBA disavowed the letter completely, but the FBI did not withdraw its response, which it stood by as a matter of policy, using the letter as a justification So, now, months later, it turns out that the original letter from the NSBA was not written as a result of deliberations by the organisation, but at the request of Biden's Education Secretary, Miguel Cardona. So you have Biden's FBI, who have been revealed to be wholly involved in the Widmer kidnapping plot and are becomming more and more embroiled in Jan 6, using a proxy letter from Biden's Department of Education to label a group of individuals, parents who do not want to see racism taught in their schools, as domestic terrorists, against the wishes of the public and the very body that were used to justify the letter in the first place. Sleep walking into fascism. You bet.
And yet his approval, disapproval and net approval are all better than Trump at the same point. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/ Whilst that’s nothing to be particularly proud of, it simply shows the evolution of American politics and the split down the middle that has been created, cultivated and farmed since Obama was president and the disinformation era began. You can’t view approval ratings through the same lens as you would say, during the Kennedy years or even the Bush years. Until a galvanising politician emerges in the USA or there is a major seismic event that brings together the two sides, this will be rinse and repeat for a long long time.
Excellent post. My only concern is that this current bunch of dreadful low cost fascists do not somehow make themselves a permanent fixture in the mean time, with oppressive, to the law abiding US citizen, voting laws that invite fraud, removal of the Philibuster, reintroduction of segregation as an affirmative act of anti racism (CRT), trial by media (Trump second impeachment, Rittenhaus), the use of corporate giants to censor political rivals and inconvenient messages (Biden openly asked social media to do exactly that in his dreadful fascist speech the other day) and state labelling of political rivals (anyone who actively opposes Democrat policies) as domestic terrorists.
Is that really your only concern Hooter? Or are there any other Fox News talking points you’d like to air? Your point about Biden’s EOs only works if you ignore the fact 50% of them were to reverse Trump’s EOs, which is the only way that can be done. If some clown turns up and proclaims the sky is the green, the fact the guy after him has to declare that no, it’s actually blue, isn’t a black mark against him. At least not in a normal way of looking at things.
On the subject of talking points, another one died a fiery death this week. "If it was a coup then why has no one being charged with anything like an insurrection?" dropped dead in the face of a number of people being charged with seditious conspiracy. The more severe charges are being worked up to (per the Justice Department) so it seems unlikely these will be the most severe of the charges we'll see, given there are so many charges still pending.
Whew. I usually sweat when you reply, because you are about the only person that actually represents a challenge on here. But if your only defense of my list of criticisms is that people have talked about them on Fox (despite the fact that in recent weeks they have started being talked about more widely in places where support for Biden has been the norm) and that rather than say why the XOs that Biden reversed needed such attention, you chose to use a proxy argument, and I think I got away with that pretty lightly. Your post is uncharacteristically unconvincing, and I think there is good reason for that. I believe Biden has been challenged on the negative effects of shutting down the US/Canada oil pipeline whilst enabling the Russians. I believe that other XOs have even been found un-enforceable in Supreme Courts across the States. None of Trump's XOs even appear to have suggested that the skies were any colour other than those we are accustomed to expect, despite MSNBC and CNN talking points, nor was the Russia Haox true, nor did Rittenhause cross state lines with a gun to shoot three black men. I never deliberately watch Fox, but the comparison provided by black conservative Americans on their channels is useful for comparing what is being said by CNN, and what is the truth.
With a stick and a dog. Yeah. Right. If you knew on Jan 6 that it was a coup, why did it take until now for you charge someone? May be the more pertinent question, unless you are uninterested in such things. I understand that this charge, on the few occasions it has been used, has resulted in acquittal more frequently than it has guilt. The assumption is that this is a false intention, and has simply been done so that it may be used as a talking point in an election year. It took four months for the Feds to even search the 'ring leader', and all they took was his phone, and a further eight months (but only 48 hours after the DOJ was embarrassed under inquiry) to actually bring the charge, and they aren't even interested in Ray Epps, who is a known associate of these people, a former chairman of an Oath Keepers chapter, and one of the only people on record imploring people to invade the Capitol on the day. I wonder what would happen if everyone just says "it was all Ray's idea". That would just be beautiful. The money is not going for a conviction in this case. Oh, and the FBI agent in charge of this case was also a lead in the FBI's case against their employees and an autistic man that conspired to kidnap Gretchen Widmer.
