The PL and EFL have announced today the post-Brexit changes to the football landscape and they look likely to impact us quite negatively, particularly if we don't go up this season. In summary (you can read the full thing here, but it's very long and wordy: https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefa...teria/gbe-mens-players-criteria-jan-2021.ashx) - Clubs not allowed to sign foreign players until they turn 18 - Maximum of 3 U21 foreign signings per transfer window (so 6 per season) - All foreign signings will now require a work permit - this is the same criteria that has been used for non-EU signings (that takes into account international appearances, quality of competition they've been playing in, youth internationals, plus the transfer fee + wages being paid to the player) So since you practically need to be an international to gain a work permit, we'll likely see the amount of internationals in the Championship plummet (as if they're current internationals they probably won't want to play in the EFL)
They'll be fine as is until the end of their pre-agreed contracts I believe, but not entirely sure of that (they might be ok period - but either way we won't need to be getting a work permit for anyone in January!)
That’s an interesting question for the foreign players we have on our books already. You’d assume that players already here would be grandfathered in, right? If not, there’s no chance the likes of Kiko or Kabasele would be able to sign extensions at the end of the season, or beyond.
The rich Premier League clubs will surely do what the Pozzos did and buy clubs in more work permit friendly jurisdictions and then move the players that are good enough across when they're eligible just furthering their competitive advantage (I know City can already do this with their group of clubs). I'd also expect them all to be even more aggressive at pursuing any academy player that shows a modicum of talent. As always, the big clubs will find a way around the rules and the best talent will be even more concentrated. Of course, when they start buying overseas clubs, expect it to be described as an innovative, forward thinking model by the very same journalists that were outraged by the Pozzo shenanigans around 2012/13.
So the Pozzo loan to Spain while they get their passport trick will no longer work automatically, but I guess if they end up being a success and play internationally then it will be ok?
I wonder if us signing Djibril (Fandje) Touré is still on? https://www.watfordfc.com/news/official-hornets-sign-troost-ekong-youngster-toure Due to join in January, presumably after his 18th birthday (November 1st) and in the first window available.
We'll be stuffed though, no way can we compete with the big clubs. And even if you do get a prospect in the academy, they can just be taken off you for buttons like Sancho and whoever that guy was that recently signed for Arsenal. It's probably not even worth scouting them or having an academy when you see a potential £100m player leave for a pittance.
Am I missing something? Doesn’t this just mean they won’t automatically qualify to play here once they get an EU passport? But in the case of players like Estupinan he played at a decent level, became an international, so surely would get a work permit to play here? Surely it just removes the formality of the EU passport, but if they turn out to be decent players it won’t matter?
This might actually work in our favour tbf, even if we stay in the Championship. Apparently it'll easier for South Americans to get the work permit now too, as long as they play in the Libertadores https://twitter.com/JDNalton/status/1333869330371588098?s=19
Well we do, so that they can develop and get to a level they’ll likely get work permit here. The Spanish passports just meant they automatically qualified, now they won’t but if they end up good enough it shouldn’t matter. Most clubs don’t bother doing what we do now, so I’m not sure it will make them more likely to when it carries a bigger rather than a smaller risk (No guaranteed eligibility after 2+ years) if it pays off? Again, I might be missing something.
The Spanish passport won't be important, it won't mean they'll be eligible, in fact it'll become just as easy for South Americans to get a work permit as the Libertadores will be viewed on a par with the Champions League
But then the system is at odds with the Home Office rules regarding points, the system has to be relatively equal for all clubs.
So if anything, it could also be a disadvantage to us from the point of view it will actually be easier rather than harder. As in, at the moment we’re one of the only clubs who play the long game, scout a player, dump them in Spain for two+ years until they earn a passport. Going forward clubs won’t necessarily need to do that and they might be able to get work permits easier than now?
But we signed him and Cucho and Suarez before they had made a breakthrough, that's the point. Signed all of them before 18 which is no longer permissible. By the time someone in playing regularly in the Libertadores, they'll be on the radar of other clubs. Of course, Udinese could just sign shed loads of players and then some of them come to us in the future but I'm guessing other clubs will look to replicate this too now.
Ok, but when we signed Cucho and Hernandez they weren’t eligible to play for us then either, hence why they had to go to Spain to get passports, or is that not the case? *Sorry cucho and Suarez
Of course, but we could still sign them before 18 then park them in Spain (they're just the best ones, there are loads of other crap ones). But now we can't even sign them when they're that young, that's the point (if I've understood the rules correctly from Reids' opening post). So the advantage of scouting 16/17 year old players and lodging them with Spanish clubs as soon as they're 18 is gone. I might have this completely wrong but it doesn't sound like good news to me.
Correct, but now instead of having to wait a fixed period of time for them to get their Spanish passports, we have to wait until they have accrued the amount of international appearances that will grant them the permit.
Isn't the broader issue that EU players who can currently come here as easily as if they were moving from Wycombe will now have to meet the points criteria. So, depending on how strict the points system is it will restrict the EU players who are able to come to England to internationals and players with Champions League and Europa League experience. It also seems that the status of the selling club and the transfer fee and wage would also be a factor. So established stars joining the biggest clubs will be unaffacted but those of us who scour Europe for slightly less obvious talent may be affected. An international for one of the smaller countries might find it easier to join an English club than an equally talented player whose not an international for France, Germany or Spain, perhaps. I've read that Leicester wouldn't have been able to buy Kante if the new rule had been in place then, for example. Presumably the same could be said of Doucoure when he joined us, and plenty of others too.
Yes, the main difference is that it's not automatic that EU citizens can settle here. I suppose it could be harder for our scouting model to compete, but then again, we could find it easier to get our rough diamonds here in the first place
You're wrong reids, it is not the same criteria and international appearances are not essential: "CRITERIA All Players shall be assessed in accordance with paragraphs 30-38 and Youth Players shall be assessed in accordance with paragraphs 31-45 if they do not achieve the pass mark in paragraph 25. The FA will grant a GBE if the Player’s International Appearances meet the Auto Pass Percentage set out in Table 1 of the criteria. If a Player is not granted a GBE in accordance with paragraph 24 above, The FA will grant a GBE if a Player achieves 15 or more points in accordance with paragraphs 31-39." In order for a player to achieve 15 or more points they can, for example, have played 40% of domestic league minutes for a team in a Band 2 League, which are: "Band 2 means the Portuguese Primeira Liga, Eredivisie, Belgian First Division A, the Turkish Super Lig and the English Championship." Transfers of players playing in Band 3 leagues should also be generally possible, if a player has played around 60% of the team's domestic minutes. Band 3 leagues are: "the Russian Premier League, Campeonato Brasileiro Série A, Primera División of Argentina, Liga MX and the Scottish Premiership." What will be difficult though is signing players from clubs Band 4 leagues and below, unless their team is qualified for a European Cup competition. For players at clubs in these leagues who aren't full or youth internationals and where the club isn't in a European Cup, then looking at the points system their applications will generally have to come down to appeal: "26. The Club may request that an Exceptions Panel consider the application if a Player achieves between 10 and 14 points in accordance with paragraphs 31-39 and: a) If the Player is not a Youth Player, the Club can evidence that exceptional circumstances prevented the Player from achieving 15 points; and b) If the Player is a Youth Player, the Youth Player achieves between 10 and 14 points in accordance with paragraphs 40-46." Band 4 Leagues are "the Czech First League, Croatian First Football League, the Swiss Super League, La Liga 2, Bundesliga 2, Ukrainian Premier League, the Greek Superleague, the Colombian Categoría Primera A, the USA’s Major League Soccer, the Austrian Football Bundesliga and Ligue 2." I know it's "very long and wordy", but did you even bother trying to read the thing before attempting your "summary"?
Ok i've had a read of the full thing now so I'm a bit clearer as to what will be a pass or not: You need 15 points to get a work permit, and the first criteria looked at is international appearances So you can get a decent number of points whilst playing not that many games for the countries ranked 31-50 (which currently include NI, Ireland, Scotland, Egypt, Jamaica, Iceland, Nigeria, Russia etc) The next criteria looked at is how many minutes you've played domestically, the quality of competitions are put into bands and rank as follows Band 1: English Premier League, the Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1 Band 2: Portuguese Primeira Liga, Eredivisie, Belgian First Division A, the Turkish Super Lig and the English Championship Band 3: Russian Premier League, Campeonato Brasileiro Série A, Primera División of Argentina, Liga MX and the Scottish Premiership Band 4: Czech First League, Croatian First Football League, the Swiss Super League, La Liga 2, Bundesliga 2, Ukrainian Premier League, the Greek Superleague, the Colombian Categoría Primera A, the USA’s Major League Soccer, the Austrian Football Bundesliga and Ligue 2 Band 5: Serbian SuperLiga, the Danish Superliga, the Polish Ekstraklasa, the Slovenian PrvaLiga, the Chilean Primera División, the Uruguayan Primera División and the Chinese Super League Band 6: Everything else not covered by the above. Next up are any continental comps played in: Band 1: UEFA Champions League and the Copa Libertadores Band 2: UEFA Europa League and the Copa Sudamerica. Band 3: Anything else Related to that is how far the players club got in those continental competitions (player needs to have appeared on the match-day squad in at least 1 league match or continental match or play at least 1% of their domestic cup minutes): and also how well the team fared domestically: And then finally you also get points for the competition in which the selling club is playing in (player needs to have appeared on the match-day squad in at least 1 league match or continental match or play at least 1% of their domestic cup minutes) Without ******* around working out how the exact % each players played and international apps etc - i've done a very rough and quick check on our squad to see who would pass/fail the criteria (when we bought them) under the new rules: Cathcart: At least 20 points - pass Perica: Close, I make it 14, might pass on an appeal but otherwise fail Sarr: Easy pass, most likely auto-pass on internationals but gets at least 30 points easily enough Success: At least 22 points - pass Joao Pedro: At least 22 points - pass Capoue: 17ish points - pass Sema: Fail - I make it that he gets 12 points, but he had played *some* games for (at the time) 23rd ranked Sweden. Might scrap past on an appeal. Navarro: Pass - gets 6 points for La Liga mins played and then 12 for Espanyol being in La Liga Sierralta: Looks like he might've failed, he played 90 mins for Udinese in the cup last season which nets him 12 points and hadn't made enough appearances for 17th ranked Chile - but now he's playiing regularly for Chile that might get granted on appeal Kabasele: At least 20 points - pass Kiko: At least 22 points - pass Masina: At least 21 points - pass Troost-Ekong: Has a lot of minutes for Nigeria (currently 35th) so could be an autopass on that alone - at least 23 points from the other criteria - pass So actually it doesn't affect us too much - Cucho would've qualified this season without the need to send him on loan again as well.
TLDR, Watford could probably have still signed Joao Pedro as when we signed him I think he was playing more than 60% of his team's minutes in a Band 2 league (Brazilian League). Cucho could have also have hypothetically joined us in the summer even without his work permit, as he played more than 30% of his team's minutes in a Band 1 League (La Liga). Luis Suarez however would have likely needed to have gone to an "Exceptional Panel" verdict, even though he had acquired a Spanish passport, as he was playing in La Liga 2 before, Players making appearances in the: Belgian, Portuguese, Dutch, Turkish, Brazilian, Argentinian, Mexican and Russian first divisions will become significant hunting grounds for clubs at around Championship level. Meanwhile, players at clubs in Scandinavia who aren't internationals and not at one of the top clubs seem to be fairly tough to sign. That will be a huge blow to a club like Brentford who have made a fair few signings from the Danish league for example. Signing players from Ligue 2 will be also be difficult (so we probably couldn't try for another Pape Gueye).
Delete this before Nornironhorn sees it and has to remind you that Northern Ireland is part of the UK...
Same with Serie B which is band 6, despite the other 2nd divisions of the band 1 leagues falling under band 4
