Wfc - Fallout Between Squad And Board (the Athletic)

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Burnsy, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    **** the owners and **** most of these players. All that's wrong with modern football and I mean that utterly without irony.
  2. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Is this a woosh..


    Befote I say the obvious ..
  3. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Feel free to say the obvious.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  4. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    the point is, this was signed and agreed, before the Brighton game at the start of LAST season. The one we won, not the one we meekly lost.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  5. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Sorry missed the discussion in the middle of this thread.

    Getting in a muddle!

    So we are talking about payments for 2 seasons that haven't been handed out?

    Could say it didn't have an impact on the start of this then ..?
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
    wfcmoog likes this.
  6. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    From what I see, it should have been due following the end of last season, but seems to have spilled into this season and, potentially, at least contributed to the performance and morale we have seen this season.
    Moosegasm and wfc4ever like this.
  7. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    Who knows, it may have been known to the players towards the end of last season hence the poor performances after the semi-final.
  8. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    There’s a few points to the article that are a bit ambiguous.

    I’m still not sure entirely if the club are refusing to pay any bonuses and that’s what has upset players. Or if the players feel £5m is due to all players but the bosses say only £2.2m is due to 13 eligible players.

    Going on to the wage deferral point, a club like ours who’s balance sheet somewhat relies on player trading, will need to be very careful. Plenty of stories saying any club that defers wages will need to pay those wages back in full before they are allowed to do any transfer deals. Have our owners/the club got the ability to do this? Will a deflated market suit Watford who like to think they can grab bargains etc? Or will it see us sell players cheaply for whatever reason?

    Either way, I suspect we won’t be seeing those quality defenders we need!
  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I've seen people speculate that should be the sanction attached to it but I don't think the football authorities have said anything. I suspect every club will end up doing it if this goes on into June, as it almost inevitably will.
  10. So a bonus issue and now wages deferral. The guys are going to be in a great frame of mind when we kick off the blitz of games to get this season wrapped up.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  11. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    According to some media this morning, EFL clubs will vote in favour of a rule whereby any incoming transfer money needs to clear debts outstanding to players before being spent on incoming transfers. Broad support for it apparently. Although given how shifty some owners are, I’m sure some crafty playing with figures could mask a different approach whilst claiming compliance.

    From what I’ve read, it’s claimed the PL would try and follow suit but again, it would need to be voted for by 14/20 clubs. Speculated that that’s why Chelsea/Arsenal have got their players to take smaller percentage wage cuts and not deferrals - it will allow them to immediately take advantage of a deflated market without embargo. We’ll see I guess!
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Probably the same issue at many clubs potentially but not ideal.
  13. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    That or they know that the Gravy Train is slowing down and relegation might see it come to a halt.
  14. Yes but we'd be competing against relegation peers who have that same motivation but don't have this bonus issue or (at present) a salary deferral to rub salt into that wound.
  15. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Reservist

    Well that explains why we were beyond crap when QSF took over... or was that just QSF?
  16. cpm82

    cpm82 Academy Graduate

    Appearence being double underlined.
  17. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Isn't serious cup progression a pretty typical trigger for football bonuses? I can't see many Watford players signing up to a bonus scheme that only pays out if they win competitions outright...
  18. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    I thought they were talking about the Brighton game we lost 3-0
  19. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    It's bonus payments for the season before last it seems.

    So who knows if last season's have bee paid !
    Moosegasm likes this.
  20. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    The joke is, I'm one of those who says that the vast majority of the squad couldn't give a flying **** about the club.

    Turns out the feeling is mutual.
  21. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Most players probably care about their career than the club they play for first..
  22. cpm82

    cpm82 Academy Graduate

    Always assumed cup related bonuses were given when won. Again just an assumption.
  23. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Why do we always play Brighton at the beginning of the season? There was the Britos assault game too.
  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I think you know what you meant but it’s payments for last season as we are still technically in this season (even if it doesn’t feel like it!)

    So the bonuses for the season we reached the Cup Final and bonuses were agreed over the previous summer to that, and should have been paid prior or during this current season.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  25. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I suspect there is likely an incentive based bonus scheme - a certain amount for a 3rd round exit, slightly more for 4th round exit - so on and so forth.
  26. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Wouldn’t mind playing them at the start of the season every year if it was away. Nice late summer trip to the seaside rather than have it in February...
  27. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    Bonuses. A squad of 25 are said to be in dispute over £5 million; £200,000 each. Its a fair old chunk of money, but less than you would think the club would argue over if it was clearly agreed. With agents and clubs used to the detail of contracts you would imagine this sort of situation should not arise.

    How much was quoted as bonuses for QSF to keep us up? Presumably Pearson et al will get their bonus in terms of a deal beyond the dimmer if we stay up.

    Whatever the facts, the Corvid19 19 pandemic has put the players in a weaker position, and the club in a stronger one in terms of wages and payments. Both now know that relegation will be even more perilous than before. Lets hope they translate that reality into retaining Premier League status, and argue about the cash afterwards.
  28. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    We've probably spent more on sacking coaches and staff this season.

    If this was agreed, you pay the players. I'm shocked that such a wonderful 'football person' owner like Gino Pozzo doesn't realise that.

    Italian Mike Ashley.
  29. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    But we don't know what was agreed
  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Watford’s squad have agreed a deferral. All sounds fairly amicable in the press release. No word on how much though but ‘no one needs to be in any doubt’ that what’s been agreed is in the best interests of the club according to Troy.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  31. Not surprised. There's a lot of it about at the moment. I've had to agree to a 30% salary reduction indefinitely for us to continue in business due to issues with some "Force majeure" clauses in our contracts. Lowest paid get 10% - 0% reduction.
  32. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    It's almost as much as we paid to "buy" Zuniga because some incompetent fool in the management didn't understand a loan agreement.
  33. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    I think we should remember we are owned by proud people and Italian.
    Had we done reasonably well in the league matches between the semi and the final and then not been humiliated in the final then I think the owners would have paid up. Instead they were left very angry and felt the bonuses weren't earned or deserved.
    The issue about the amount of money in the pot and the number of players due, well that's a different story and much more of a grey area with little or no real facts know to be able to discuss with any accuracy.
  34. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Assuming the bonus clauses were correctly written by club and reviewed by players (admittedly absolutely not guaranteed given the Zuniga embarrassment), the performance in final league games and final would be irrelevant. It would be like saying a tennis player who makes it to a Grand Slam final and gets pummeled by Djokovic doesn't deserve his prize money for the semi final win.

    If the clause was a discretionary Pozzo bonus then that is the players own fault of course, but that should have been made clear to them before agreement.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  35. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    If Federererererer lost to Djokovic 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 then unless he was injured there would be questions about whether he had applied himself.

    The big issue I have with our team is that there seems to be an "only if we can be arsed attitude". The team is capable of producing some excellent football, the best we've ever seen at the Vic, they're capable of beating some bloody good teams. They're also capable of some absolute toilet and when they do, it's generally through lack of application, not lack of talent. When they chase down the ball and give it everything they are a joy to watch. Regardless of whether they like the current manager, whether they get a nice £100K payoff for another luxury sports car they need some pride in the work they do and need to put in 100% effort each and every match. They get paid a bloody fortune for doing a part time job most of use have to pay other people to do for fun. If they don't like their contract, then they need to take it up with their agent that advised them to sign it. If they're sick of the club, then play out of their skins, put themselves in the shop window and ask for a move. Don't mope about giving half arsed performances so that they can run their contract down.
    Rozerhorn, El distraído and wfcmoog like this.

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