We did OK, but not sensational. Our mid-field defensively were well off the pace and caused ourselves all sorts of problems. The front line pushed, cut out passes through midfield making them play long. The back line coped with that, but every time they got their head or foot to it, the midfield seemed to have disappeared and gave away the 2nd or loose ball. Another day we could have been 2 down after 10 minutes, with Bachmann and Sierralta mucking up a easy short ball play out and Sierralta for some reason jumping under a cross. We were better than most of the season, way way better than Birmingham, you can see what we are trying to do, in terms of pattern of play and set up, but still a mid-table championship performance. Plusses, Rajovic has definitely improved, Dennis looked like he wanted to be part of a team, TDB again, Hoedt & Porteous. Martins is a complete waste of a shirt. The sooner he goes back the better.
Enjoyable game despite the way it ended. I had to sit in the home end, but the Watford fans were in good voice especially considering the way the season has gone. We more than matched a team that will be in the playoffs and at times outplayed them. That should be the level we aspire to next season if we get transfers business right (spoiler: we won't). Biggest worry is how inevitable the West Brom equaliser felt, I was barely even disappointed when it happened. Good showing though overall.
Cleverley is or ought to be a dead cert for the permanent role. He can clearly get the team to play and why not him when the option would likely be someone we’ve barely heard of with little experience of top flight English football. We should snap him up before someone else does. Hopefully, even if he inherits a depleted squad, he may be able to exert a little more influence on the clubs targets and build a decent team out of the remnants, a couple of wise buys and a few youngsters.
I kind of agree, but the trouble with having a club favourite in charge is that it’s rather sad at best when he’s inevitably sacked.
In my opinion the big problem all season has been getting a full 90 minute (plus stoppage time) performance from the team. A few times we’ve got close, especially in TC’s last two matches in charge, but not quite. It remains our Achilles heel.
Yes agreed. We need to go back to the pre pozzo days when we got a team performance greater than the sum of the parts rather than just recently where we've been getting a team performance which has been 75% of the sum of the parts. Continue in that vein next season and we will be relegated. Early days but TC seems to be getting a proper team performance from the players he has at his disposal.
I presume you mean in the more recent Pozzo era as we certainly performed like a team I'd say most of the time up till about 2020 save for the average 13/14 season. Lets see if this is maintained before getting over excited but was an encouraging start. And sure there were loads of complaints when were struggling pre Pozzo too - wasn't always perfect. Be nice if we can play well every week or look competitive at least but won't happen all the time.
I agree he should get the role instead of another European nobody who speaks gibberish and will get sacked after a few months, but I do wonder how much our last few performances have just been him letting the handbrake off after months of turgid football under a rigid coach. It's too soon to tell really. Over the course of a full season does Tom have the nous and experience to solve the usually issues that arise such as managing the squad, injuries, different formations when it stops working, overturning a winless streak etc? That's the main risk for me.
Look at what happened to Oli and Manure for a first class example. He soon became their most hated pubic enemy #1. One exception to this rule is Harris at Millwall. Still adored by the fanbase and has of course had his own personal problems that he has overcome. A real football man. Clevs has that in him to do well, but I would feel bad if he got the gig and turned out as bad as Oli did performance wise where the players' gave up on his ambitions.
Solskjaer still managed to finish 3rd in his first full season in charge at Utd - I'd take that here!
An issue down the line could well be having Cleverley in the back ground. If we are able to pick up another couple of wins and a couple of draws in the last 6 games, then Cleverley has W3 D4 L2 and seems to be playing football that the players like. If another HC comes in and things aren't working you will always have Cleverley in the back ground, and the players knowing that they have a fall back to someone that they could well prefer. Does it put a future HC in a bit of an impossible position?
No I meant the pre pozzo eras when we survived in this league despite having bottom half quality players, Hodson, ****inson etc. We are heading back to having players of that standard so will need to get the absolute max from them to stay in this league.
I think we have to look at this from the professional’s perspective. None of them can take up coaching with the notion that it’s a steady job where you’ll be loved forever. It would probably be more hurtful to Tom to be passed over than be hounded out if it goes wrong. He’s heard it all from the stands before and will place more value on the people he works with and the fans who shake his hand. And once he’s had his time here, he’ll get another go somewhere else.
They say 2-0 is the most difficult score to have, its a shame we only had a 2 goal lead for 4 minutes, when it was 1-0 we were attacking for the 2nd, however as soon as they scored they had the momentum and it was harder for us to get forward with any purpose! Like Leeds it was all them until they scored their 2nd then we were just grateful for the final whistle. Roll on Saturday!
Probably down to the fact we have very little to play for but I wasn't that bothered about the end result. What I wanted to see was a change in attitude on how we played football and over the two games we had this weekend I thought it was evident that the change was a positive one All the way through Val's tenure we always looked for the negative option. I'll use Lewis as an example. Whenever we got a throw in around the half way line, the first look from Lewis was towards Hoedt or whoever the centre back was. It was always negative. What I've noticed since TC came in is that we are looking forward and not back. We're not passing it around at the back for what seems like an age. We're getting it forward to Dennis, Bayo, Asprilla. Not just lumping it either. TDB looks happier playing this new style and actually looks quite decent. Lewis is the same, all of a d=sudden you can see a decent player in there. We've just played Leeds and West Brom and were within minutes of winning both. Not sure many could have predicted that Do we give TC the job? I would certainly prefer that than Maloney or some foreign chap I've never heard of. Not a cat in hells chance the assistant at Bayern comes here and there is no guarantee it would work anyway. I remember Paul Clement being widely tipped to be a successful manager because he was assistant at Real Madrid but for some reason it never worked With the lack of funds as of next season I would be tempted for TC just for his knowledge of the junior players at the club and the success he had with them this season. I see a lot saying Asprilla will be gone but I'm not so sure. He has improved this year but I still feel as though he has a lot of improving to do and if he ended up going to the Prem would he play? We have the option of selling Louza which although isn't going to be multi millions could be enough to keep the wolves from the door. I actually believe we are not far from challenging next season if we can keep the majority of the squad together. I suspect keeping Dennis is hugely unlikely but that would make a big difference. Add a couple of decent loanees from the Premier League (something we apparently turned down this season) and we could have a shout of play offs.
He's clearly not ready to start regularly for a Prem club with any ambitions of being competitive, but we'll need to sell, best case scenario for him and us is that a club in Europe but just below the elite who can offer him enough football to make it worth his while, while also offering us eight figures. Think our two games against West Brom (among plenty of other games this season) show that there's a fag paper between most of the teams in this division, if everything (signings and injuries mainly) goes your way, you can scrape into the top 6, but we've not got particularly close to that this season and next season promises to be even tougher
Not really the right thread but Luke Dowling is currently on Talk Sport talking a lot about Watford, nothing really revelatory so far but might be interesting for some to listen back to. Main takeaway so far is that we didn’t sign Toney because we didn’t think he could make the step up to the PL from league one.
I didn’t see it like that. I thought both Albion goals were completely out of the blue. At 2-1 we still looked pretty good for the win and had more of the play going forwards. It wasn’t like the Leeds game where it was a bit ‘backs to the wall’ for the last 15 minutes (even though Leeds didn’t play that well).
Yesterday was one of the strangest away ends I’ve ever been in. I’ve never seen so many teenagers dressed in the same attire (and sporting the same haircut) and there was also a lot of people, not that this a negative thing at all just merely an observation, for whom it was clear it was their first away game- either following Watford or football in general. Most who were stood round me had absolutely no idea what was going on and a very large group behind me (all wearing the same thing so clearly part of a group) who didn’t even celebrate our goals. Just smiled and lightly applauded. It was bizarre. I assumed it was because it was Bank Holiday Monday and the Easter Holidays have started. Onto the actual game- if that’s a play off team then christ we have fumbled an opportunity there. West Brom were bobbins for 75 minutes. Having said that, Andrews had yet another awful game. Fellows or Johnstone (couldn’t work out which) are not on Summerville’s level but still gave Andrews a torrid time. He’s one that needs the season to end so he can reset himself. Sierralta was shaky and almost gifted them a goal in the opening minutes- a good save from Bachmann and then a block from Porteous prevented it. I’ve been a critic of Rajovic this season but what on Earth happened to him yesterday?! I thought he was fantastic- really put himself about and even very nearly outpaced Ajayi. Some good touches and link up play and was in the right place at the right time for the goal. TDB was also very very good and looked absolutely cooked at the end. Disappointing to not hold on but to avoid defeat against Leeds- probably the best squad in the league and West Brom- a team that’s going to finish in the play offs is not half bad. We played some good football yesterday. I think that’s enough to give Cleverley the gig full time. COYH
I get a little annoyed that people say that the opposition had a bad game when we manage to beat them or get an unexpected draw!!! Could it not be that we just outplayed them and made them look bad, because we played well!!! I think we should give our team more praise when we outplay teams, instead of saying they did not play well nearly all the time
Lol, f3cking d1psh1ts. But also, we had just been relegated to the Championship anyway when he was being sold. And even then, at the time on here I said that I thought a PL club could move for him and I was a bit surprised he ended up in the Championship.
In hindsight, I think he might have been talking about WBA rather than us, it wasn’t particularly clear, but he was actually working for them at the time rather than us. Need to listen back to it.
Having had a quick search it does seem Dowling was at WBA from 2017 to 2021, and they had just got promoted the season Toney left in 2020, so makes sense. Still foolish of them.
And in all honesty if Asprilla made the simple pass to Dennis at 2-0 he was one on one to make it 3. But agree the last two games against inform sides has been very encouraging. TC has got them motivated and trying to get us on the front foot. We were all over Leeds but run out of gas and the same against Albion after a slower start. This is all I want, well expect tbh. Is my team to give everything to try and win. So far under TC we have 100% seen this. TC should get the job and get players he believes we need. Will that happen probably not but I can live in hope.
I’m happy for TC to get the job given our expectations next season, but I’m pretty sure sure everyone was saying the same about Ismael early on as well about the players fighting hard and giving everything to win. At this club that vibe never seems to last too long with any group of players.
The rewrite of history has happened at record speed this time. All we’ve had all season is nonsense about ‘team ethic’ and trying hard, dismissing lucky wins as ‘never giving up’. Valball this and Valball that, despite no semblance of an idea or plan on the pitch. Hilarious how the story now is that he was useless all along.
Exactly - give it a dodgy run and it will be Clev out or he hasn’t “got it “ I think if we had got those two results with Val there would have been criticism for losing late leads . But of course it was generally very positive and the players seem happy and performing better . Might help Cleverley was a playing colleague and supported them rather than being very critical and questioning the squad in public .
I guess thats always the risk but under Val we never looked like a "honed team who were confident in how the manager wanted them to play". Yes we had good spells during games but only when attacking and large parts of games we looked awful and dejected. Can we have a quick change to develop a top 2 team.. No. But we've all been shouting for months that we've been an inconfident, disorganised mess of a team, so our main requirement for next season is a manager that knows what he's doing and can put out a decent team of players that understand exactly what is required of them. TC fits our current needs and any other unknown will likely not....?
Similarly if we lose the next 3 the conclusion will be that "bounce" is over, TC is too inexperienced, tactically naive etc.
I guess GP will wait until the end of season and assess TC after the last game. True, things could turn after the usual new manager bounce but I don't see that happening (but I'm thinking more about team "performances" rather than just results). Cue - us drawing all remaining games...
Personally think TC will have to think long and hard whether he’d even want it…next year the squad is highly likely to be worse than our current crop and, knowing about the Pozzos trigger fingers, whether he will want to run the risk of working for a club that won’t give him time
I think we were all pre-warned about his tactics and one trick pony style by Barnsley and WBA fans' before he was appointed. Like all previous ones, he got the side going on a good run of results (performances sometimes didn't quite deserve in some games) but we moved up from 16th to a possible playoff chasing side before Xmas. As usual though, no matter who is in charge, we collapse second half of the season. VI had more than enough games to turn things around but stuck with the same style in every game. We were hopeless from boxing day onwards. with a lucky win over QPR and we still cannot win at home, having scraped past Chesterfield 2-1 in the FA Cup. The whole Ryan Andrews debacle was obviously not in his favour, and considering that came about when our results hit the wall was telling the writing was on the wall. He wasn't terrible, he was better than QSF 2.0, but as so many said he was just a cheap option by Gino to fill the void in the Summer. Playing TDB at RB was a massive error on his part and it was plain to see he wasn't comfortable there. We have not had a comfortable out-of-position player since Gozzers. TC has us playing an identity of football again but no matter who will have as head coach we are never going to threaten the playoffs anytime soon unless we somehow get a very lucky window with loans.
