total disection, we spent everything in 1st half just trying to keep up with them and then basically just died
Yup, there must surely be nothing more dispiriting as a striker than to score a worldy at one end, then watch your defenders let in a couple of soft goals at the other.
I don't think there can be one person on here who isn't disappointed at our lack of goals. Even allowing for the huge step up in oppenents this season, to go from being the free scoring side of last season to netting just 6 goals so far this campaign isn't good. It's totally natural to wonder why we let Vydra (and Fessi) go and instead signed a raw talent who seems a long way from the first eleven. The difference of opinion is more between those who are seeing things look a bit better in our attacking play (as in the first half on Saturday) and those who think what we've been served up in the opening nine games is therefore logically bound be to the pattern for the whole season. Seeing as what we saw under Joka in his opening 8 matches wasn't indicative of the pattern for the rest of his reign, I'm very much in the 'things will get better offensively' camp. Sides who defend as badly as Norwich and Bournemouth did at the weekend will ultimately struggle at this level, even if they're also capable of scoring plenty too. It's a bit negative I know but keep a clean sheet and you're guaranteed a point. Score five and you can still lose! I personally don't think we are too too far away getting the defence-attack balance right, and i'm pleased that teams are having to work very hard to beat us. This season still has 29 games to go! That's three-quarters! Keep the faith!
It's interesting that we've only so far played 4 teams in the bottom half of the current table 2 wins & 2 draws.
Yes if you look at the average current position of the teams the promoted sides have played so far it works out as: Bournemouth - 11.6th Norwich - 11.5th Watford - 9.5th Our number helped somewhat because we've played the top 2.
From a defenders point of view there's nothing more dispiriting than spending the whole game heroically defending only for the strikers to miss chance after chance.
The Newcastle-Norwich game was an outlier from the Norwich point of view. At 2-1 down they should have had a penalty and Jaanmat sent off, and then it would have been a different story. Neill gambled on Newcastle falling apart if Norwich kept at them and took off his best defender (on the day) and holding midfielder, who was also playing very well. As a result, they got hit on the break several times. If they had got the draw their overall performance merited, or had lost 4-2, your comparison with Watford would have looked rather different, Legs. It's also been pointed out that we've played two of the top 4. Well, with a quarter of the season gone, that's par for the course. Worryingly, Newcastle have played all 4 (if you still count Chelsea as a top 4 club).
Few comments from Norwich and Bournemouth fans saying that they need to be more defensively minded and raising concerns about the lack of investment in the back 4. MOTD pundits said something similar. Easy statements to make on the back of heavy defeats, but that now seems to be their concerns, in contrast to ours. Our goals for and against are similar to WBA, Swansea and Stoke, which isn't a bad comparison based on their success in recent seasons. We created the chances this weekend. Slightly concerned at the lack of quality in attacking positions, but at least we created and all were decent moves. There is still something lacking with the front 4, but it's getting better. Behrami and Jurado are also big misses. Got to be hopeful that there's still a lot of attacking players on the bench that have barely played and one or two will hopefully come good as the season progresses.
By the way, going off on a tangent a bit but anyone else surprised at how ickle wickle Sanchez was? Thought he was a mascot at first!
Agree with most of this, but feel Berghuis is being picked on a bit: he was certainly no worse than Ighalo, who had an absolute stinker and is not, repeat not a lone striker.
More goals =+2 Less goals =-2 Stoke 1 - 2 Watford Although we need the clean sheet for goal difference otherwise we'll only be awarded 2 points next match.
Makes no difference as far as I'm concerned. The idea that our 0-0 and 1-0 results are somehow superior is just a pro-Watford narrative that our fans made up. Norwich have been thumped and had some big wins themselves, whereas we've been existing on the margins. But regardless, there's no merit in being good at one thing and c**p at another, no matter how some people try to spin it. By definition balance means doing both things a similar amount. All three of us are in similar position near the lower half of the table. And therefore we've all got the balance wrong. I don't buy into the idea that goals will just come - that's an insult to all our opposition and understating how blunt we look going forward. To find true balance we must improve on the attacking end. And having a plan b would also be nice.
What are you expecting considering he's played 42 minutes for us so far? The first goal from Arsenal was the first home goal we've conceded this season... And RE: The Cech handball, yes he was lucky, but there was no way the ref could see it based on the angle and it was over too quick and with too much uncertainty for the lino to give anything.
That's fair enough - I think my focus was more on Berghuis due to him just coming on. I just expect a bit more flair, but Im pretty sure he didn't make a successful dribble or pass.
I don't think all the promoted sides are in the bottom half because they haven't found the right balance between defence and attack. We're all in the bottom half because our players are not as good as those in the top half. At the end of the day Vydra has gone and the manager can only use the players at his disposal. Beyond shuffling the attacking options, which has already brought a couple of victories I don't see what else he can do differently, especially if he thinks that those currently not in contention are either not ready or not putting the effort in at training. The number of fans singing his name on Saturday suggests that the majority are happy with the performances and results, whilst accepting that they would like us to score some more goals. Develop as many plans as you want but if Ighalo misses or Deeney doesn't pick the pass then we won't score. We conceded on Sat because Capoue went forward, got caught out of position and a premier league team will pick you off at will. Just like Newcastle did to Norwich six times.
You stick ad hominem attacks, I'll stick to facts. Fact: If a manager is sacked it's usually because of dire results and leaking goals. The replacement manager's immediate goal is to stop conceding and shore up the defence. How many managers say in post match interviews they were delighted with a clean sheet? All of them. The defence is the foundation of every team, a strong defence means you have a chance to win the game. If you want to make it absolute then yes not conceding is the goal. Fans love a 3-2 win, managers and coaches prefer 1-0 because when push comes to shove it's still a +1 goal difference and the coache's immediate review of the game will be spotting the areas they conceded and working on them in training. Yes I would love us to score more goals, however the defence is still a work in progress but respected in the league. If Ighalo had put away 1 of the 2 chances then it takes the pressure off the defence. If you think West Ham is a gimme, then I would beg to differ, they spent money adding to players they already bought and how many years since they were promoted...4 years? Ahead of us in development...but we'll give them a game. We'll just have to agree to disagree on our views.
Your post is so full of strawmanery that it's not even worth replying to in any depth. We'll agree to disagree. I think 1 goal in 5 home games is a concern. You don't.
Players? My feeling is that if we're going to continue sitting in a defensive shell for most of the game, we need better attacking players. Perhaps bar the occasional Ighalo piece of skill, we don't have any 'something from nothing' players.
And by that 'reasoning' every promoted side gets it wrong, every year. The other teams have had years of consolidating their squads and amassing PL experience. This is why promoted sides are always favourites to go down. And also why staying up is the only prize that matters this season.
"You have no frame of reference here, Donny." My point was that if Norwich and Bournemouth are supposedly doing it all wrong, then so are we.
Do you even know what 'strawman' is? From your understanding, I'll wager you don't. Managers / coaches don't prefer clean sheets?? You're claiming that's a strawman argument? :dismay: You start building a team from the back....if you'd played any level of football, you'd know that. I was right...you just don't get it.
Well Jez, that was the managers decision to let players with pace and experience of Watford go whilst replacing with untried and apparently not ready for the team players. Ok, so Vydra is injured now, these things happen. They are gone end off. (I myself would have preferred them still here) Also, very happy with our work & team ethic and our defence; we gave everything on Saturday. I hope it will all gel but it looks very clear that a very slight jiggle to the formation and players into the right positions and goals will come. The question is will the HC bend a little? From history he appears very stubborn. So he will live or die on the cards he dealt himself at the end of the window; I really hope he lives and thrives and we will know this by December.
Doing what wrong? No one gets relegated in October last time I checked. I simply said I'd be concerned if we had conceded 20 goals already and yet played any of the real big boys and prefer our start.
Why do people keep saying that the goals will come? - people have been saying that on here since the West Brom game and only one player has scored for us since then. Do people not realise that our lack of goals is because we are so defensively set up that we are not inclined to take any risks with our attack. It works away but at home we are going about it all wrong because we seem more concerned with not conceding than scoring and I dont think we are not going to change this approach any time soon. I can imagine QSF telling Capoue not to get too far forward from now on because of the first Arsenal goal. The system only works if we score first - if we concede first I cant see how this side can salvage a result - OK it happened at Bournemouth with a clumsy error by their keeper but that was a one off. Im not writing off our chances of staying up because we've shown we can pick up points. Im saying that we really need to start seeing a goal threat from somewhere other than an Ighalo drop of the shoulder.
