Ake looked assured and didn't put a foot wrong, oozed confidence for a young lad. Feel sorry for Deeney, I think as captain he is putting the responsibility of supporting his team mates ahead of being a ruthless, selfish goal poacher. Having said that he is the best WFC captain I can remember. Bergius looks totally ineffective and out of his depth, I hope I'm wrong. Would have played Gueds ahead of Abdi and was surprised he didn't get some game time, he deserves more. Final thought, football is an entertainment business and at home we have been in the main soporific, the result I feel is more important than the style (though others will disagree) but we don't seem to have any style, plan A or B and when we don't get the results it can create negativity both within the club& fan base and in the football world generally, as Rogers at Liverpool knows, once the knives are out it can wreck the confidence of the team. Let's hope heads don't drop.
This is the PL not the Championship. There won't be a procession of chances with dodgy defending all over the place. He got Anya behind their full back a couple of times and played a peach of a cross field ball to Abdi. What they then did with it isn't his fault. I get a bit gobsmacked when I read posts like yours or the bloke earlier who said he walked out. Walked out? The team are fighting to stay up but he's bored so pops off home. This season 17th is enough. Forget the chatter from people about 6th, top half etc. And the team that scored the best part of 250 goals in the last 3 seasons has gone. It would be crucified at this level. Defensive discipline is what will see us survive.
Agree with that, would also like to have seen Gueds come on, particularly against his old club and think he would have given us that extra bit of edge in the second half, not yet convinced about Diamanti though to be honest, think Jurado had a very good game yesterday, certainly his best yet, and has the potential to be a very creative player.
Not read the entire thread, but yet again people seem to be moaning, we have lost at home to palace who a very good away record who recently won at Stamford bridge, it would have been great to have gone September undefeated. We deserved a draw, to me the real test is next week at Bournemouth, if they stuff us 3 nil if we have 11 men on the pitch and they don't get a couple of pens then we have problems. I think we will win there and they will be one of the three teams we need to come above this season. We have been spoilt for entertainment over the last three seasons and the premier league is not going to be like that at our level, we are a victim of our own success, the owners and the coach know what they are doing, have faith.
With the benefit of a good night's sleep, we had a good game but for Deeney & Abdi having poor one's. It was that gap between midfield and our front man that crept back again. We lacked a Plan B where Palace didn't i.e wide men prepared to have a pop on goal as well as put crosses in. We can't rely on Deeney as no. 10 all the time without other threatening options or we'll become too one dimensional.
It appears that QSF does not rate Guedioura, because he was surely a perfect choice for the last 20 mins to change the boring repetitive rut that we were in.....if he didn't get on yesterday to lift everyone, then the writing is on the wall
Agree with a lot of the more positive comments on here. Yes, it was frustrating. We gave up our midfield in the second half and resorted to too many long balls to Troy and Odion who are still adapting to the Premier League. Yes, we've had some entertainment over recent years - but, I don't feel anywhere near as frustrated as I did after the 0-1 to Cardiff last season or 0-1 to Bolton the year before. It's early days, we're actually getting there as a squad quicker than many expected ...
A few thoughts on the game... 1. Palace didn't bother closing our centre backs down at all, they were happy for them to have the ball. What they did do was close off the short ball to Watson or Capoue, hence why we ended up punting it long so often. 2. Palace's two centre backs and Ledley were not going to be bullied by Deeney and Ighalo, they were too strong. We've been playing a lot of long balls all season but it only really works against less physical defenders. It was very easy for Hangeland and Dann, helped by some generous refereeing - Hangeland fouled Ighalo five times without getting booked - if he'd received a yellow he wouldn't have been able to get so tight and we might have had a bit more joy. 3. Our only other attacking option is using the full backs down the wing. Both put in incredible shifts but teams seem happy for us to attack this way as they have plenty of time to pack the box and clear the crosses. Neither Abdi or Jurado is likely to beat a player for pace on the outside and whip a cross in so we have to wait for the overlap to arrive, allowing the opposition to get set in the middle. 4. We missed Behrami. Watson played well but he is nowhere near as mobile - Behrami tackles, harries and intercepts about 10-15 yards further up the pitch than Watson which means we begin a lot of our attacks further forward with the opposition more out of position. 5. Jurado was playing really well for the first 35-40 minutes when he kept coming into central areas and was pivotal to the attacks. After that, he began to drift further wide and slowly out of the game. Definitely his best showing for us though, would like to see him keep coming central to get involved. It's been the same for Abdi, when he comes inside looking for the ball, he's far more dangerous than when he's out wide. 6. For all of Quique's talk about how he doesn't like the long ball, we play it an awful lot. It makes the decision not to sign Gestede look a bit questionable. Leaving Prodl upfront for the last ten minutes was straight out of the Boothroyd playbook, not something I would have expected when we appointed Quique. Still, I don't feel too downbeat. Very few teams will be come to Vicarage Road with such pace on the break - there's a good reason for their excellent away record and we matched them for most of a scrappy game. Ake looked excellent, he was so positive when he came on and looks like a good option at left back. I can definitely see Holebas going out on loan in January to free up a place somewhere else in the squad (perhaps another central midfielder?). Thought Ibarbo showed some nice touches too, he played a couple of clever short passes which had been missing for the rest of the game. I've also finally accepted that we are going to be a pretty ugly team to watch but will at least be competitive for most games.
Perhaps I was watching a different game, but I thought we played quite well against a very good Crystal Palace team - it bodes well for the up and coming games. As long as we pick up points at Bournemouth, Villa, Stoke and Leicester then there's nothing to worry about. Interesting to see that the bottom 8 or 9 are those that the majority of us predicted to be fighting relegation (bar Chelsea of course). We're still going to finish top six though, right? After all, we have the best goalkeeper in the Premiership and a future England player in Troy Deeney.....right?
Well said. I thought we looked tough to break down for a quality side. Nyom had a tough day and in the end it was a rash challenge that cost us. Come away thinking positively though - most teams will struggle with Palace and thought we equipped ourselves well. I do think we need to create more and having a second option would be good upfront if Denney and Igahlo find it tough too break down which they did today. A few players slightly off form today but good to see the qulaity Ake has and Ibarbo looked OK when he came on. Jurado looked good going forward but question his work rate when we are under pressure. Will be disappointed with anything less than 3 points next week but have a feeling we will win and it will be easy to see how much better the team is compared to last year
I was amazed at the amount of talent CP have in their squad, especially attacking talent. I am of course disappointed that we lost, but not too disheartened, because although it pains me to say this, Palace are a very good side, and we gave them a very tough game, which could have gone either way, though they probably just edged it to be honest. Gomes - had yet another excellent game, and is prooving a fantastic asset for us in the PL. Nyom - had his toughest game to date against the flying Palace wingers, and despite the penalty still did well and is still great asset. Cathcart - as steady as ever and likewise Prodl - both great assets as well. Anya - Has won me over, as I was a big critic of his, LB seems to suit him, and his overlapping is fantastic, he scares the **** out of opposition defences, if he could just improve his final ball and his shooting, he could become a star player. MOM Capoue - Wins the ball a lot, but does not distribute it as well, good but could be better IMO! Watson - had a good game and could keep his place - Behrami - might struggle to get back in, good for the team to have such a dilema. Abdi - did OK IMO, though alot of others did not think so, though could do with getting his shooting boots back. Jurado - did well, and in the games I have seen, he has not been as bad as others have said, is he a bit of a luxury maybe? Deeney- though still good, he is another one who needs to find his shooting boots, seems to be stuck in passing mode at the moment. Igalho- up against it yesterday, needs Deeney to chip in a goal or two to take some pressure off him. Berghiis - not too impressed with him as yet, but it's early days. Ake - had a decent cameo, might be an idea to team him up with Anya? in front wide left and him at LB. Ibarbo- decent cameo, should be good back up for Deeney and or Igalho?, maybe replacing one or the other for last 15/20 mins.
Good news,good luck. Did anyone else see the two or three oily little Palace tics trying to deface the SEJ after the game? I too thought Ake looked very assured,may see him more involved in future perhaps? Likewise Ibarbo. Trying hard not to mope and have given myself today as an official day of being aggravated,then time to grow up!
The formation we play clashes with the talent we have. Jurado and Abdi should be playing where Deeney is playing at the moment to get the best out of their footballing ability. Unfortunately Jurado and Abdi are not Bolaise/Puncheon type wingers and its frustrating that our player recruitment didnt focus more on fast wingers who could defend and attack. I actually think Holebas is more suited to this formation but it appears QSF doesnt rate a player who we were all raving about when he signed from Roma in the summer. If he goes out on loan then it was a mistake to buy him.
I think the current set up works great on the road, but I think we need to start with more pace at home to give us more penetration. Start one of Abdi/Jurado and start one of Deeney/Ighalo. Then fill the other 2 forward spots with combos of Anya/Ibarbo/Berghuis. Ake/Holebas to fill in for Anya at full back. I'd love to get Diamanti on the pitch to help the set piece situation but can't think how.
Palace executed a game plan perfectly. Funnelled all of our attacks into the neat little triangle of Ledley, Dann and Hangelaand then smashed it out to the wings, focusing on Nyom to wear him down. Everything went down his side. Bolasie for 45 mins, then Sako, then Zaha. It was a rash tackle but he was worked over by 3 good wingers and I'm certain Pardew planned this. I've got no concerns about us going down. We’ve only looked out of our depth against City and we've also played Everton, Southampton, Swansea and Palace. So 5 of the teams that will finish in the top 10-11. 2 wins, 3 draws and 2 defeats from our first 7 is pretty strong from that set of fixtures. Playing away seems to suit us better presently and the next 4 away fixtures are against teams in the bottom half - muff, stoke, leicester then villa. After that we have back to back games against Norwich (H) then Sunderland. Based on what I've seen so far we'll be sitting on roughly 25 points at Christmas. Which is good going and leaves us 12 points short of the safety bar for the last 4 seasons in the Prem.
Interesting point about targeting Nyom. I guess it worked in the end, but what on earth did Pardew see in our opening games to think that Nyom was the weak link to be exploited? Personally I thought Nyom still did okay yesterday apart from the challenge for the penalty.
Hello Dave. When I was younger I suffered from anxiety attacks and blacked out 3 times after feeling light headed. It's really annoying when it happens in public! They did lots of tests on me and found nothing wrong, so hopefully it will be the same case with you. Haven't had any problem for about 10 years now.
I don't think it matters who you target if you keep running at them and rotate the attacker and be persistent then it will ware anyone down physically.
Didnt Raheem Sterling outpace Nyom at City? Maybe Pardew thought outpacing Anya would be harder than Nyom
Guedioura hasn't really kicked on over the summer and he hasn't adapted to the things we are trying to achieve.
Well, I reckon Southampton will finish in the bottom half - and Leicester are looking like a top half team.
A frustrating game yesterday. Was surprised to see we had more of the ball, as Palace were pretty good in retaining it, particularly in the second half. They have a wealth of pace and trickery which is always going to get them goals or cause problems, but what surprised me was how comfortable their back line was. I actually thought our back line coped very well, particularly Anya and Nyom (and Ake when he came on), but our midfield got left out yesterday as a result of a lot of long balls into Ighalo. I thought Watson covered well for Berhami once again, but we just lacked a final ball, and reacted badly when they cleared one of our many long balls out of the box. I actually think Diamanti or Guedioura would have made a more effective sub yesterday. These type of games will happen, and I still believe more goals will come as we learn from games like this.
All of the above, plus Nyom carries the ball out well to start a counter so wearing him down completely nullifies the outlet for one side of our team - especially as we play quite narrowly anyway. All my opinion but with the pace and trickery Palace have it’s what I’d do. Suck us into the middle of the park so the full backs have no cover then focus on the one that has the less mobile centre half (prodl) to back them up. Ake sub should have happened much sooner but that’s a hindsight thing
Nothing to get too downbeat about to be honest, Palace are a good side who didn't really outplay us, just countered our strengths and picked at us with their threats well. We so far have been reliant on Troy and Ighalo, or just Ighalo if you look only at the goals. Palace negated that threat by pressuring us in certain areas and they have three of the trickiest wingers in the league. Having said that if we do find ourselves not being able to attack through getting it into Deeney and Igahlo, we looked otherwise toothless when we went wide or tried other things. There was too much looking to chip it long to Deeney/Ighalo, who was marked by Hangeland. Doubled up by Dann and covered by their midfield on the second balls, they knew what to expect and had the personnel to deal with it. Impressed with Palace though to be fair.
Lets face it, Nyom is by far our biggest threat down the wing, Anya gets in all the right places but his delivery is so non-existent it's bordering on funny. By attacking Nyom all game, it keeps Nyom focused on defence rather than letting him push forward. This means our only outlet down the flanks was Anya, whose delivery they could deal with all day long. I was down the pub but they were showing it with no sound, I saw they focused on Anya at HT but was unsure what they were saying about him (replayed a few dodgy crosses though).
Agree It wasn't that we needed more pace, or this player or that player... Pardew just out thought QSF Not knocking QSF because he's learning the league but he did get it wrong yesterday
For those asking what our plan B is... what was Pardew's plan B? His plan A was to use pacey players and be direct towards us. This didn't work right up to the penalty, which was down to Nyom's mistake/stupidity making that tackle (I'm not slating Nyom really, he played well bar that tackle). His game plan didn't work against us and he didn't seem to have a plan B either. That match would have been a draw if it wasn't for an error. Swansea didn't have an effective plan B either, they tried to use their plan A (passing football) but weren't able to. I imagine Southampton were the same, a lack of plan B.
With the playing style Flores has chosen to go with we'll get a few home games like yesterday I predict. Especially against teams like Palace who have superior players to us. Games like that can go either way, either we win as we did against Swansea, or we lose like we did yesterday. The games where Flores's style will be useful are the away matches at places like West Brom, Stoke, Bournemouth, Norwich, Crystal Palace etc., horrible places to go to which will need a hard-working performance to get points from. The teams that go there and aren't prepared to put some graft it on the pitch usually lose.
7 dislikes later, i'm merely pointing out that we've only seen one home goal in over 6hrs of football at the Vic this season, which is a bit depressing, no matter which way you look at it...
Rather than walking out in a cloud of depression, I'm actually quite fascinated by this little period in Watford's history. Don't forget we're playing at the highest level now and to have gone well over 6 hours (if you count up injury time probably makes it closer to 6 and a half hours) and only to see 2 goals from any side, is quite remarkable. It's almost a chess match. I'm actually enjoying seeing how robust we are and how difficult we are to break down. Since the Pozzo's took over, goals from either side, were never far away, now it's different, but just as intriguing. Sequences like this don't last long, just accept it for now and enjoy the oddity of it all.
