Neutral people are seeing what Deeney has done in the past month without the negative filter that, it seems, most Watford fans view Deeney with these days. He's done well. A deserved MotM performance at Stoke, important goals from the spot and his general all round play has been decent. What people have to think with Deeney is that he's not a goal scorer anymore. He's not been that since promotion to the Premier League. He's a battering ram. Someone who does all the nasty stuff. One of the best players in any league at taking penalties. He wins headers, the ball tends to stick up front with him and there's a noticeable weakening of forward play when he's not in the side. Most of our good games as an attacking force is when Deeney is on it. The biggest issue for me is that he has no support. We don't have a player who can play off him and that's down to poor recruitment. Switch Gray with Vydra (for example), it would be easier to see Deeney's value. He would be setting up Vydra (or whoever) to finish and Deeney would be viewed in a totally different light. A provider who takes great penalties. Newcastle still use Andy Carroll and Deeney is far superior to him in my book. There is a place in any side for a Deeney type, but Watford's biggest problem is the lack of quality with the players that play around him (namely Gray)
No to building a formation around Deeney, and making excuses for why it isn't working. He is the problem.
I don’t think ‘neutral people’ are seeing anything. I think the PFA wanted to have a nominee from each of the top 5 sides (which is a stupid criterion in and of itself) and looked at our goal scorers and concluded that Deeney should be picked to represent us. As for your claim that “most of our games where we are a good attacking force, Deeney is on it” - the bloke plays in all the games so he also features in most of our games where we’re not a good attacking force, too. I think Deeney would be a great plan B like Carroll at Newcastle (not that their the prem side to tactically model ourselves on) but his ego renders him incapable or unwilling of playing such a role at Watford. We should be using the season to get Joao Pedro up to speed - if we manage his development right we can ensure that he’s getting 20+ goals next season.
The lack of quality is him. The whole team is suffering because of his inability to do a lot of things. The midfield suffers when he plays as well. When you build your entire side around the two worst players (Deeney mostly) he’s obviously going to look competent at times
He's not the player he once was, but he does offer something. Like I said, if we had a top striker (Toney for example) the entire debate over Deeney goes away. He would be seen as a provider and a big strong force up the top end of the field. He's not a goal scorer (in open play) anymore and hasn't been for a long time now. Fans have to accept this. Is Deeney long term or the future? No. Can we sign a better player? Yes, but we've not got anyone better than him at this moment in time. He's well worth his place in this current side.
Trouble with that is that whilst he is here, no manager will get the chance to try a system without him. Drop him and he will claim he is in top form, get some players to turn against the manager, and go crying to Duxbury.
He’s not really a provider though. His aerial win % is 44. His xA this season is 2.01 and that’s from 4 games only. His npxG is 2.93 and he’s scored 1 goal. The reason it seems like he should be starting is because every head coach caters towards him and him only. Once Gino n co pull their finger out regarding a head coach, we’ll become a better team. When Tom Cleverley has a higher npxG per 90 and has more non penalty goals this season; it’s a big issue.
Carroll has made only 3 starts for them this season and they lost all of those matches. Other than that, he has been mostly making cameos off the bench for the last 10 minutes of games, which is what Deeney should have been restricted to as of 3 years ago.
Deeney does not put effort in, it's as clear as anything! He walks around the pitch complaining about his team mates for the most part. His decline is unfortunate and holding us back but I could handle that if he was working his socks off. But he doesn't, and hasn't for some time. A couple of times a game, he'll run at a defender to press them but that's about it. He doesn't run down the channels, he doesn't constantly hassle the back line, he doesn't bust a gut to make a run across the near post when someone is about to cross. He has spent the last few seasons jogging between the halfway line and the edge of the penalty area. And now he's dropping even deeper. He's either unfit or not in the slightest bit bothered about playing for us anymore. An afternoon playing against Deeney is, for most Championship defenders, the easiest game they'll have all season.
I love the idea that Deeney is a 'provider'. His passing is ******* terrible. 1 or 2 good passes in half a season seem to make people think he is a good support player; it's mental. There is not a single thing he is good at anymore (apart from penalties) and that would be very sad if it wasn't our club and he wasn't such a poor influence on the team. I wouldn't even use him for the 10 minute cameo at the end nowadays - he hasn't 'bullied' a defence in well over a season.
This is the bit I don't understand. If TD is the problem and spends so much time complaining about his team mates, how does he then get support to oust the manager? I am not saying he doesn't do these things, I just don't understand why he would get support from other players?
Yes, and they have been told this by Deeney himself. It is utterly baffling how a 32 year old TD can't just rediscover the pace and goalscoring form he showed as a young fit man 5 years ago. Clearly the team are taking too long to get the ball up to him where he can use his one-on-one pace. A few direct balls from the CBs should fix that.
Why? Not sure I understand his point. Taking a penalty must involve a lot of mental pressure because of the expectation of a goal. I can't even imagine what that would feel like if it's 0-0 at Old Trafford and you have a pen to win the game in front of 75,000 fans who are already celebrating in anticipation. It suggests he didn't have the ability to cope with that pressure and preferred to pass responsibility to someone else. Scoring from open play and scoring from penalties are not mutually exclusive - what striker wouldn't want to do both if they had confidence?
The pass he did for sarr to score against stoke was great but does mean he is a number 10 ball carriers and flair players in that position please enough said
I can't believe I am actually saying this because it's a pretty awful thing, but, in recent times I find myself hoping that Deeney picks up a knock and is out for while, nothing horrendous, maybe a month/6 weeks hamstring. I honestly think it is the only way we are going to see games without him starting, and I really think we need to start games without him (and Grey). We are 28 games into the season with one goal each in open play (albeit both injured for a chunk of them), fair play Deeney has 6 pens, however I would think 5 of those would be scored by whoever else would take them. Perica is back, Success (I know, but maybe) seems to be coming back and JP is there and playing, Danish Phil could probably play off a striker as well. Please, please let us try something different that involves players with pace that can control a football.
Don't try and make sense of nonsense. People making stuff up to fit in with their dislike of a player. If anyone seriously, really, thinks he picks the team or tactics then they need to have a little sit down. Deeny is noisy and will always give soundbites but he is still a player and an employee. The biggest problem is that we simply haven't recruited for a Deeney replacement which should have happened a few years ago. People getting in a tizz and wanting him dropped but who else do we have? Success is a mess, Perica injury prone, Sarr isn't a striker. If you could keep Perica fit and brave enough to play through pain equivalent to a mild headache then he and Pedro might form a decent partnership, but so far Perica hasn't been able to do that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55907793 Been seem sure that his contract is up this summer. The comments about him being in this article are gold.
Other than Leventhal I can't find any other source from him renewing his contract beyond the 5 year one he signed in 2016.
I am not sure this is accurate he just hasn't got it anymore he moves slow and he don't really win the ball in the air, I think it is a bit of a myth that he he is good in the air, I actually think JP is better aerially than Troy. I also think Carroll is much more effective than Troy.
Supposedly Pedro hasn't had a shot on goal in his last 5 games.. Probably not his fault because no-one really has a shot but just shows he isn't exactly in great nick either. Like you say Perica could be the answer but then so could some kid from the youth team. And as for Success - again he might be better than Gray but we'll probably never find out. I think the Phil Z situation is very odd though - another player hyped up to be the hero who saves our season but hardly picked.
Zinckernagel was good at United but looked like a lost little boy in another home sub appearance. It is standard Watford behaviour to overhype players hence people foaming at the mouth when he isn't picked despite him showing nothing just yet to warrent the hype. It would be good to see him get a chance but only based upon the fact we are currently creating sod all rather than him being the next Messi.
