http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/24/watford-face-fine-and-points-loss-over-forged-hsbc-bank-letter/ Think its been proved the funds were there - even if the letter's a little dodgy
Well if me and you did that would we get into trouble? An example will want to be made as well. What else are they hiding ?
I think this is serious as surely the purchase would not have been sanctioned by the FA without the forged letter.
What is the applicability of EFL rules to a Premier League club? That's the key question. I struggle to see how a points deduction could ensue as it's a different competition.
But we were in the EFL (in its previous form) when the purchse took place, so it is arguable that we shouldn't have got promoted.
What's really impressive is how the Telegraph managed to track down the elusive Raffaele Riva and get a quote from him
Yes. But how do they deduct points from us in a totally different competition? There may be rules that allow for it but I can't recall it ever being applied unless the FA are involved. I thinks that's a pretty big leap and barely arguable. This was the club moving from Pozzo Snr to Pozzo Jnr don't forget. A paperwork exercise, not a shift in means for the club like when Bas waddled off into the sunset.
Is it just me or does it seem a big deal over... Not much? Heavy fine maybe, but can't see much more. The further down the Telegraph story you get the more it sort of seems to be like well they may have done something wrong but we don't really know.
Maybe the EFL will ban us from the League Cup 2nd round for the next decade? That would be a grievous blow to League 2 clubs everywhere.
As long as we don't get points deducted, and no morally egregious actions turn out to have been committed, I can't say I am too concerned. Seems to me that the blame may well lie in the elusive "X" that the club ceased working with in 2015.
I suppose it depends how you see it. The EFL have been bashed from pillar to post over the Fit and Proper Persons Test. It's almost unenforceable in practice and I'm sure they're gagging to hang someone out to dry for breaching it, particularly after Cellino ran rings around them and ultimately got off. Others have done the same. No wonder their spokesman talks tough - they've been praying for a black and white case and this could play right into their hands. At the other end of the spectrum it's just a wonky letter. It's actually quite embarrassing the EFL accepted it without even cursory checks. It even looks bent to me - the phone number is just HSBC general customer services, which hardly makes sense for a letter about a £7m assurance. "Press 1 for Personal Banking, Press 2 for Loans, Press 3 for Mortgages or Press 4 is you're a national sporting regulatory body wishing to check out one of our customers." Yeah, righto. I suppose the really interesting thing is that there can't have been many people in the loop about the true provenance of this letter. Clearly someone has had their nose put out of joint by Gino or Riva and the tip to the Telegraph is revenge. Certainly an interesting dynamic there and you have to wonder what else that person knows.
It's serious alright ... Whoever submitted the out of date Credit-Suisse letter has quite obviously improvised to save his skin. Presumably there was a critical deadline to meet leaving not enough time to get a new one and/or they simply lacked the guts to admit their mistake to Gino.
What can the EFL really do though? Kick us out of their tinpot Cup? Points deduction if we get relegated? I imagine a fine would be the only way to hit us, but even then I doubt it'll cause us any problems. Amazed that the EFL upon receiving the documentation couldn't even be bothered to verify the letter with HSBC at the time, especially after rejecting a previous document from Credit Suisse. Sounds like Riva certainly pissed off someone.
Assuming this is true, whoever forged the letter has probably also committed a criminal offence under the Forgery Act 1913 and anyone else aware of the offence may be an accessory.
I think you've chosen the wrong law by way of example but yes, it's potentially a clear fraud. Whether it's in the public interest for the Polis to get involved is a different matter altogether - particularly given sporting sanctions seem to have it well covered. The CPS won't be keen and the gravity of the alleged crime is minor. Unless this letter is a string which when pulled uncovers a massive corrupt enterprise I really doubt the police will involve themselves.
Dont know why, but I always had a thought we would some how get wrapped up in this Telegraph bollox. We have been hated ever since we loaned so many from Udinese.
If there is a significant 'loss' or 'gain' then I suspect it would meet the public interest test with ease. I'd be amazed if the CPS didn't run with it. Having said that, I wouldn't be convinced that the club gained solely because of this letter. Nonetheless, based on the article, the basic threshold has been met - could go either way.
They've not been able to sanction Premier League clubs for F.F.P beyond the issuing of a fine. As far a fraud goes I'm not sure how serious it can be as available funding can't seriously be in doubt. I'm almost 100% certain this mysterious X has done it just to cover up his own cockup.
Morally egregious would be a strong characterization for fraud of such low importance. If Gino didn't have the capital to take over the club making the ownership illegitimate, or if the fraud had in any way caused anyone harm financially or otherwise, perhaps you could start making the case for calling it such.
Whoever tipped off the Telegraph appears to be the one that committed the offence. It also appears so far that no one else knew about it; certainly no one is ever going to admit to knowing about it.
I think The Godfather has hit the nail on the head as far as motivation for submitting a forged letter, which I was struggling to understand. If an incompetent person had to cover their arse after submitting the inadequate Credit-Suisse letter by committing this fraud, it seems the crime, and crime it certainly is, is solely that of the perpetrator. I don't think WFC should be required to do more than upgrade their internal accounting procedures to ensure this kind of fraud can't happen in their name again. Am I off track?
If the EFL take action against us, I think we should counter with a claim against them. They deemed that a certain 'LB' was a fit and proper person to run our football club. What checks did they do? If the telegraph wants a story they should investigate the Bassini/Russo 'loan' afair.
You do have to wonder who tipped the Telegraph off. X? Riva? Who else would have known if it was X's arse covering? Odd.
The more you think about it the odder it gets. 'X' seems to be getting off very lightly in the Telegraph article- I'm sure they could have found out/reported the identity- unless of course X is the source. If this is part of the investigation that did for Allardyce, it is all a bit feeble (as were all of the other revelations)
I think the mysterious Mr X has made a mistake not being named as I imagine he'll have woken up to a horses head in the bed and will end the day sleeping with the fishes and no one will know who to look for.
And I was dreaming of European football on a Thursday night, how silly of me. We will be playing Tranmere away with 26 traveling fans before we know it. That's the Watford I know and have supported all my life anyway.
