Sell Up Pozzo

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by NathWFC, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Burnley started very poorly last season and have been relegated and returned to the PL during the Pozzo era. Palace started very poorly the previous season. Muff have admittedly avoided this sort of thing so far and I'd put this down to the 'Eddie Howe effect' and the consistency that brings. He's an excellent manager which is at least as important as the money factor. Same argument around consistency re. Dyche.

    Say what you like about our 'revolving door' policy but the evidence currently is that it hasn't fared us any better than consistency.
     
  2. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    If we succeed in geting over our poor start and end up comortable, like Burnley and Palace did, I will have more sympathy with that argument. At present that looks unlikely.
     
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  3. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I would say last season was more the norm than this one. All the seasons we've had before this one we have started well and finished mid table ish. Last season was marginally better but not much. This season is not marginally worse, it's much worse than anything previously. The cup final is a bit different as a lot of it comes down to luck of the draw or having a purple 20 minute patch in a game that gets you through like the semi final.
    At the same stage (after 13 games) in the last 4 seasons we were 13th, 8th, 8th and 9th. this would suggest being 20th after 13 games stands out against all the other seasons
     
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  4. Yes but all these clubs have a good season interspersed with bad seasons or spells, and most are or have been in danger of relegation over the past few seasons. This year is just one of those years when the marginal games have gone and are going their way.

    Burnley went down a couple of seasons ago and came back up. Palace went 8 games without a win last year but pulled it back. Bournemouth have struggled in recent years but eventually managed to stay out of it, but have had a few tense seasons. Brighton were this season's relegation favourites. Wolves had a terrible start to the year but were only a couple of bad results from still being in the battle at the bottom.

    All teams from about 8th down will always have these of seasons where marginal calls don't go their way, they have no luck or rub of the green, a bad run of injuries hits, or for this year VAR affecting results negatively.

    That's been our lot this year. And once it starts and the confidence drops, it's hard to find it again.

    And that's where we find ourselves. Low on confidence, bad injuries and a bad run of luck in a few games. Just need that spark to turn it around.
     
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  5. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    There have been times when those clubs have flirted with trouble, yes. But (save for Burnley's relegation season) not in the consistent way that, say, Newcastle have . Do we look like a Bournemouth or a Newcastle this season? I'd say we would be doing damn well to end up "doing a Newcastle" given our current position.

    Of course all good things must come to an end (ask Stoke or West Brom fans), but we don't have to accept that they need to come to an end yet just because we don't have multi-millionaire owners and/or splash the cash. Those other examples suggest we can aspire to better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  6. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    A film is obviously pre-determined in that it's been filmed already. A play will have been rehearsed and acted a number of times before unless you go and see it on the first night. The idea is generally to produce an identical performance each night (although not always) only subject to the odd gaff. Both will have been extensively reviewed unless it's a first night. Films at least are reviewed pre-release. So, if you regularly turn up to one of these events and are disappointed, might I suggest a lack of research?

    Football is however entirely unscripted both regarding an individual match and a season and beyond. So that's the attraction in watching it. A performance that you don't know the outcome of in advance.

    Of course, because we all have a vested interest in a particular outcome for the club we support, we are entitled to be disappointed when that doesn't occur and to point out the reasons why we think that is. Reasons which are agreed by all and sundry on here irrespective of which end of this unnecessarily polarised debate you come from.

    It's the anger I still don't get though. We've all agreed and signed an unwritten contract to attend an unscripted event so anger isn't really an appropriate response when the outcome isn't always as we'd like.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  7. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    I understand the anger some feel. Anger with players not pulling their weight, anger with coaches making what seems illogical substitutions, anger with management for not strengthening clear weaknesses in the squad. All of which mean our chances of watching our team in the top division are slipping away. How much that angers you depends on your personality primarily. To some it's just an important hobby and therefore "a bit of shame", to others it's perhaps the most important thing in their lives.
     
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  8. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    This is the crucial one, surely. People might get angry because they think that the reasons for the club's current plight are obvious and avoidable - indeed, may smack of complacency or being distracted by other goals, such as those relating to marketing. I don't recall people being especially angry in 1999 or 2006.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  9. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yes the expectations were so different then.
     
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  10. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot


    See, for all your adversarial posturing, you don't disagree with me, or probably Nath and Jumbo that much.

    Where I differ is that if I, a no mark jabroni from the outskirts of Chorleywood can see where the problems were likely to lie, why on earth didn't our myopic owners?

    I have been calling for defensive strengthening over the past 4 transfer windows at least, but Gino has obviously known better. When I've criticised him for not addressing our ageing, weak defence, the same people who now accuse me and others of being elated by our demise, were accusing us of being idiots, of being fools for daring to criticise the all knowing, all seeing Pozzi.

    If it was obvious to me, if it was obvious to Nath, if it was obvious to GD, Jumbo, Chumlax, if Reids, for goodness sake, drew a ******* diagram of Burnley's first goal on Saturday and mailed it to our assistant coach before the match and none of it has been heeded, it's pretty natural for us to be frustrated.

    I'm not really as angry as all get out about it. I am saddened because of the way our club has wasted an opportunity. The best that could have come of this era of our club would be to hold our own for a bit and then, hopefully, win a cup or do a nearly Leicester and have one great season where we mix it with the big boys (before the rich kids bought our best players and we reverted to type).

    As it is, from this spell, our memories will be limited to a handful of wins against the big boys (and a below average haul at that) and a humiliating cup final hammering.

    We will dismantle this squad (no bad thing IMO) but my concern, which I don't think you share, is that we'll continue to repeat the exact same mistakes, because it suits Gino to do so.

    We will never be signing players to become long term, club men like Burnley or Muff, because that is not Gino's model. We will never sign long term, high quality defenders, because the money is better spent on flair wingers, who can go on loan and appreciate in Belgium or Germany.

    I don't think we are that far apart on a lot of the bigger picture stuff, it's just that we have different places to lay blame or to display that blame.

    And you're a happy clapper.
     
  11. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    Wasn't that the win at Norwich that we then spectacularly failed to build on?
     
  12. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    The draw vs Arsenal, the first two clean sheets in however long, the first win in ages.... how many false dawns will it take?
     
  13. The fuse blew. We bought a new one.
     
  14. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    The night is darkest before the dawn. Apparently.
     
  15. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Guaranteed 3 points on Saturday then ? Hurrah !
     
  16. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    No, just a grim performance under the St Mary's floodlights before we all wake up the next morning and realise we don't have to watch the MOTD repeat and can get on with our Sunday mornings.
     
  17. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    Yes, but...



    As a side, we might as well run out to this, though I'd rather it was Shadowplay.
     
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  18. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    We've lost control again.
     
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  19. magic

    magic Statto & Vordamen's lovechild

    Long will tear us apart... again!!
     
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  20. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Like all the best teams, we just have to break the game down into little chunks and ensure we don't lose each bit. For example we need to make it to 8 seconds without conceding and then use the mental boost from that to make it through the next 8 seconds. I reckon we could make it a whole 40 seconds without conceding if we take that approach.
     
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  21. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Not sure "Joy division" is appropriate name for the prem this season ?
    "decades" - before we are back.
    "atmosphere" - for the intimidating cauldron we are creating at the Vic for visiting teams.
     
  22. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Notice how all the angry ones are over the 15,000 post count, think we can now safely say it's been scientifically proven.
     
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  23. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    An excellent post sullied by your 'have a go' last sentence. In the same way as Nath's o.p. was generally good apart from his 'two brain cells' and 'insanely delusional happy-clapper' comments. You just can't resist it can you?

    Were you to stick to a rational analysis of our current predicament which I would probably agree with (as previously indicated) then we would probably get along just fine. However, if you continue to call me out and bait me then I won't be baited but will, every time, respond as I see fit.

    You're right. I think we're all agreed on where the problems lie. You have used the words saddened and frustrating. My sentiments too. And, it's entirely fair to point out that you and a few others have pointed towards some building up inadequacies at the time. I wasn't around on here then.

    So, if you wan't to have some sort of truce here then I'd be entirely willing. If you'd agree that we're entirely agreed on our current predicament then that would be fine.

    If however you and a few others want to call me out after a particularly sad result on Saturday then I'm afraid you'll continue to get it back in spades.
     
  24. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot


    You take yourself and me far too seriously.
     
  25. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    An interestingly short post given the previously long one.
     
  26. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    If
     
  27. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    I'm entirely unsure as to what is the point of this anymore.
     
  28. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    .
     
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  29. Happy yellow

    Happy yellow Academy Graduate

    The reason why last season was a fluke is because the squad was crying out for investment in defence and attack the previous summer. Repeating the same act and expecting the same results was what the owners hoped for but by saving a few extra million ( by being spendthrift) they have lost themselves hundreds of millions plus player re-sale values if we go down.

    For players such as Holebas, Deeney, Marriapa, Cathcart and Foster last season was their last hurrah. Gray is OK as an impact sub but not as a starter at Premier League level.

    Javi Gracia over-performed with the squad he has and the squad is now older, tireder and full of injuries reducing our options further.

    Fans who voiced their concerns have regularly been shouted down as being miserable and insulted with just as much ferocity than those disagreeing with the
    ' Gino knows best' mantra. The pre-season preparations not just as regards to transfers but the squad preparation were amateurish and complacent. I am not sure if they have learnt from their mistakes.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  30. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    ?
     
  31. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    We all support the same football team. Starting point? Agreed?
     
  32. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

  33. F
     
  34. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Bournemouth's recruitment is excellent too. They mainly sign young players that have excelled in a lower league the previous season, and did so throughout their rise up the divisions. They had a bit of a blip where they signed a couple of overpriced foreigners but have reverted to their tried and trusted route since. Amazed other clubs don't copy them.
     
  35. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Mmmm....
     

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