I agree with what you say, but at the end of the day the " mess " has got us into a too good for the championship and not good enough for the premiership position! we are always going to struggle in the top league but those of us to have seen us play in the old fourth division (yourself included) when you could park 2 minutes away from the ground 10 minutes before kick-off, have had an absolutely fantastic journey following our club and whatever decision the owners take accept it and let them get on with it, its their bank balance that's at stake hopefully we will always have a club to support! It seems every club have players that don't work out, who knows what this season will bring, but one thing for sure we are in the top league, even with relegation (if we have to) we would be in a better position than May 2020!
I don't know if the squad is good enough to stay up is what I am saying. I have that viewpoint going into any Premier League season, its a 'let's wait and see' approach with me. And I am sure I am not alone. As for the Gray point, another occasional brainblock comment you come out with. You conveniently ignore that I have said the last 6 months or so that him and Deeney and Success should no longer be at the club as they aren't decent PL standard imo. Deeney and Gray have declined since the Gracia days and Success was never really any good. Write it down, you seem to forget it all the time
It's not their bank balance at stake. It's the club's future because the debt is largely external. The problem with the current situation is if we had not gone up last year it's possible we would have been insolvent. To be fair this year they seem to be trying a more prudent approach, whether that is an active decision or because the creditors have turned the taps off. I also definitely agree with your final sentence, largely because we can hopefully jettison the dreadful drains that are Gray and Deeney. That's about £8 million a year savings right there.
Really? Just because people are pessimistic doesn't necessarily mean they want the team to fair. Even the biggest naysayers feel better when we win.
Just seen the highlights. Certainly weren’t happy about it. Palace commentator naturally thought it was clear cut. Sarr got caught on the ball for the 2nd then Zaha just turned our defence inside out. We actually scored from a (well worked) corner ? The usual poor defending from a corner!
Yeah me too. Its become toxic and used as nothing more than a vent for peoples negativity, with any chance for balanced discussion having totally dissapeared.
Can’t help but agree with this . I’m not sure I’m Gonna carry on participating in this forum much longer . It’s been like this for a while and was similar last pre-season . However it seems to have reached fever pitch now . This is probably because there is a fair chance we won’t stay up this season and the usual suspects , sensing this , want to make sure they explore all the negatives so they can tell us they told us this was going to happen and how this is all down to dreadful mismanagement of the club over the last 5 ( or whatever ) years. As opposed to just being the realistic struggle of a team punching way above their weight. I actually have enjoy led reading the varied balanced , interesting and unique viewpoints on here over the years , which is the shame of it!
As genius as this is, those two things are not mutually exclusive. What problem do you have, exactly, with fans recognising mistakes being made/elements of mismanagement? If you don't agree that they are mistakes, that's fine, it's perfectly within your rights to not do so - it will eventually be proven to all of us one way or another, but it's equally others right to do so. Why do you have to insist on characterising the alternative viewpoint as some kind of ulterior, sinister motive just because others don't see what is happening at the club the same way you do?
Once again……….people critical of the ownership would like nothing better than us knocking the spots off it this year, not least because it will further repair damage to our finances. The concept that criticism means that Watford fans want us to be relegated is utterly bizarre. If you can’t handle a different viewpoint to yourself then you are probably right that an internet forum is not for you. I took plenty of ribbing when we steamed up the table last season and I’m absolutely fine with that. Stop being so precious.
I don’t have a problem with fans recognising mistakes. I have done so myself . I suppose I’m just finding the endless repetition of the same points quite tiresome now. Maybe I just don’t get it because supporting Watford is a joyous thing to me and reading this forum is becoming joyless .
I want nothing more than for this season to be a success and for us to stay up for another prolonged spell, something that the Pozzo have literally shown is possible (for which they obviously deserve the initial credit) but for some reason it appears that we are not learning, or not choosing to learn, a lot of the lessons that it was claimed we have in terms of recruitment and organisation. For that reason, and the fact that from the indications we have had so far (which are obviously not cast-iron, but continue to grow as a body of potential evidence) we aren't giving ourselves a great chance to have a good season and compete at this level, I am pessimistic about our chances of that happening. It's frustrating and annoying to watch the same things be repeated over and over, even when (again, I know) we keep being told they won't be. I believe that we are perfectly capable of staying up, if we 'do our business right' and make just a few smart decisions - the problem is, rather like in our relegation season, for one reason or another the hierarchy currently seem as though they are burying their heads in the sand/pretending the issues that are very clear to most of us are not worth addressing with the requisite care. It feels a tiny bit like being gaslit. In light of all that, we are still in that same situation - we are basically in the same position as we were last week, and the week before, and the week before that - players frozen out/at an impasse, a lack of important/clear upgrade transfers, and several positions looking very weak - meanwhile, we are not midway through the summer - we have just played our last pre-season game, looking relatively terrible across the board, and we literally start our season, in an extremely difficult league, in six days. Therefore, these points keep getting repeated because nothing is changing/we are not really being shown anything that would give us fair reason to be more optimistic. It's basically still a binary choice - if you have chosen to be optimistic in the face of it all, then that's great, and you will probably still be that, but equally if assessing the state the squad and staff are currently in leaves you feeling unfortunately pessimistic (as it does me) there is no particular tangible reason why that would have changed, up to now. Essentially, in very basic terms - I want us to do well; as well as possible. In assessing how likely that is, we have not done the majority of things that I believe general received wisdom suggests we would have needed to do to have the best chance of that. As a result, I'm disappointed, and slightly worried about how this season is going to unfold - that we are once again in danger of wasting a huge opportunity, caught with our pants down anew. A lot of the joy of following Watford would obviously come from watching us play well, compete, and yes, even win some games. If, thanks to a lack of preparation/adequate action, at this point after all that has happened in the past two years, we have a terrible season and barely lay a glove on opponents, then I will freely admit, I won't find that very joyful, and it will be most frustrating because it wouldn't necessarily have needed to be like this. I hope that that won't be the case, and we will all be brought joy one way or another by the players on the pitch this year, but whether we are or not, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether I am actually a fan of Watford or not, nor whether I'm nefariously trying to 'explore all the negatives' in some kind of devious plan - I have my own agency, thank you, and as I have just laid out, I have certain beliefs based on what we have seen so far - there's nothing disingenuous about it, whatever you want to insinuate. My view of the club is no less genuine than yours, so as much as you have the right to hold yours, you don't have the right to cast broad and invented aspersions on those of others.
For as long as I have been reading the forum (about 5 or 6 years) there have been cycles of existential crisis, where the forces of negativity and positivity do battle. I can personally understand the negativity - I think the majority on here think that we are likely to struggle this season, which is unlikely to be particularly fun. After the euphoria of promotion, the reality of our financial situation has crashed us back down to earth a bit and hamstrung us in the transfer market. There is a clear frustration that what seem to be obvious flaws are consistently not rectified. Defence, midfield, and Deeney spring to mind. I can also understand the desire to be positive - I am generally an optimist but Watford does tend to bring out the cynic in me. Ultimately it's everyone's prerogative to contribute or not contribute depending on what they feel they get back from the forum. I am pretty fickle. If we win I watch the highlights ten times and want to discuss every detail. If we lose I tend to turn my phone off and ignore that it has happened. Each to their own.
Since Pozzo arrived in 2012 we've had 4 seasons in the Championship (finishing 3rd once, 2nd twice and mid-table once). Other than that we've been in the Premier League. And the stadium has been upgraded significantly. Next week we begin another season in the EPL. Of course mistakes have been made, but come on people, keep a sense of perspective.how many other clubs have had a better last decade? COYH!!!
I couldn’t really be bothered to read all that but I’m actually not sure you’re even one of the people I’m referring to with the overly negative posts as haven’t noticed you being one of them . Could be wrong though as I tend to try to avoid reading those posts if I can.
I dont think even the most negative on here don't acknowledge that the Pozzos got an awful lot right in the first 5-6 years of their tenure. That they have done a lot for the club is not open to debate. However, the last 4-5 years the decision making has been consistently pretty shambolic. The failure to replace Deeney as a starting striker at any stage over the last 5 years when it became clear he was nowhere near good enough. The failure to reinforce our defence over 6 years. Most of those defenders starting for us struggled last season in the championship (or equivalent level for daryl). Mariappa has been released by a bottom of the championship club but was starting for us regularly! Spending our limited budget on players the coach had no interest in (e.g. 30m on Sarr when our coach didnt play wingers. 8m on Oulare when our coach didnt even know who he was. 7.5m on Pussetto when we desperately needed reinforcements to keep us up when Pearson clearly had no interest in him) while leaving key areas without players (e.g. Holebas being our only left back for years, half of last season with no left back). The frankly insane contracts handed out to players you would struggle to say were worth half that amount- 100k per week for 6 years to Deeney, 70k per week for 5 years to Gray, 20k per week for 5 years to Sinclair. The insane contract renewals for players who were unfit and / or not good enough - Success 5 year renewal. Penaranda 5 year renewal. Janmaat's renewal. Britos's renewal. The bonkers coach recruitment or lack of strategy - bringing back Quique when you had a very good reason to sack him. The Pape Gueye fiasco (and the other two court cases we lost). The failure to pay players bonuses they were entitled to because Pozzo was upset. COVID-19 certainly threw a spanner in the works and made a lot of our problems worse, but many of the above things were long running self inflicted issues. They can say they held their hands up and admitted mistakes and they got us back up, but in doing so they have continued to make quite a few of these mistakes. I think there is just cause for fans to express concern over the way the Pozzos have run the club recently while also being very thankful for their historic contribution.
Mistakes have been made - particularly since Pozzo Senior stepped back - but as far as I'm concerned they're still very much in credit. I tend not to let the clubs finances intrude on my thinking too much on a day to day basis - I treat going to football as a social event and if I see us win that's a bonus!
Giampaolo’s involvement ended in 2014 when Gino took sole charge. That’s before promotion to the Premier League.
The first half of their tenure we ran like a well run operation. They operated differently to other clubs but you could see a method to the madness. The second half of their tenure we have consistently been pretty shambolic. It has been madness with very little method. We have progressed when you look at 10 years, but we have gone backwards when you look at it over 5. It is fine that you see the balance of the scales is still weighted in Pozzo's favour because of what they did in the past, just as it is fine for me to say that the trend of it that concerns me.
They move in mysterious ways, granted. But Last season we were promoted to the EPL at the first attempt so he's obviously not getting things as wrong as people seem to think
I’m sorry that you’re suffering. Not nice to hear. However, you’re original post that has garnered the replies you’re not happy with, accuses people of being ‘trolls’ who hide underneath rocks and genuinely want the club to lose (which is nonsense). I’d suggest if you’re asking people to show consideration to how you might be feeling then one of the best places to start is to not go after others in the first place? The people you accuse of being trolls purely because they feel negatively about some transfers/tactics etc could equally be having a tough time of things in their personal life. That consideration you ask for goes both ways. If you are struggling with things, always happy to listen in my DM’s. I hope things improve for you soon and a few Watford wins can help along the way!
