Nigel Pearson - Sacked

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Harrow Orn, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    Isn't pearl-clutching over whether someone is being labelled 'a liar' a little childish, in reality? If you're so insistent that Pearson isn't 'a liar', then you must equally be insisting that several very prominent and senior/respected football journalists are 'liars'. In reality, everyone lies and they do it often, in all kinds of nuanced ways, whether it's via omission or a partial telling of the truth, or direct and blatant. Plenty of diplomatic statements that are necessary thanks to the lack of actual black and white scenarios in the world are 'lies' if you care to look at them like that.

    It's just like when Ivic was making statements about players who were unavailable during the transfer window, and some would shriek like a faded southern belle at the slightest suggestion that he, our Head Coach, might be being accused of being 'a liar', despite the fact that it is essentially part of the very fabric of his job to tell 'lies' when it is in the interests of his players and club, as it is with every other manager.

    Nobody's honour is unimpeachable here, nor should you expect it to be, and equally it's not actually any kind of a big deal if someone thinks they are in some way not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth a la Ricky Gervais' (flawed) 'The Invention of Lying'.
    a19tgg likes this.
  2. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    No way Pearson was the same man after lockdown. Absolutely passive on the sidelines as we came out week after week looking totally flat.

    Made his name as a pashun merchant, take that away and you’ve got nothing.
    domthehornet and Chumlax like this.
  3. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    That’s right, he didn’t inspire confidence in the team, right from the first game back he didn’t seem bothered!
  4. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    I don’t really care that much about this, frankly, so I don’t really see what is “childish” about it.

    The point I was trying to make, admittedly rather clumsily, was that we now have a detailed story from NP on what happened. I wasn’t aware, but perhaps have missed, that we had a detailed alternative story along the lines of the various rumours that have circulated on here (what is it that these prominent and respected journalists have said, then?). In a situation where there is a detailed account on one side versus rumour and hearsay on the other, I would say that it becomes incumbent on those who believe the rumours to disprove the detailed account. To say, as the original post did, that someone can “choose to believe” (suggesting that it isn’t accurate) the detailed account when all we have on the other side is rumour and hearsay seems to me to misstate the relative weight of ‘evidence’ on the two sides.

    As I say, perhaps I have missed a detailed counter story - there was something in the Athletic, wasn’t there, but was that ever followed up elsewhere? And it’s also possible - quite likely, in fact - that Pearson’s account misses out some important details, ie it isn’t false, but is incomplete. But I read that article yesterday and I can’t say that anything in it immediately leapt out at me as being implausible.

    Ultimately this doesn’t really matter anymore, except to NP himself. So I guess it’s not worth pursuing, I suppose I am still just a bit puzzled about it and would have preferred to have had more detail from the club.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
  5. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet First Year Pro

    If this is true it’s a shocking indictment On
    The club . How they treat fellow human beings is important to me , regardless of the wrongs and rights of the decision. However there are 2 sides to every story and we will probably never know the full

    This may go some way to explaining why we were so poor post lockdown if Pearson was going through all that.
  6. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I like Nige but he clearly isn’t very self aware, amongst his various interviews, on 5 live he said something along the lines of ‘I’m normally a very calm person but I did get quite angry’.

    He’s got a long history of losing his rag at pretty much every club he’s been at. He might come across as calm and considered in day to day life but it can’t be lost on him that he’s been involved in several high profile incidents where he lost his temper and got angry.

    Maybe he lost his rag with Gino but doesn’t even realise it could’ve been why he was subsequently sacked, he just thinks it’s normal/wasn’t that big a deal.
    iamofwfc and wfc4ever like this.
  7. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Yes, I agree that is quite possible.
  8. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    As I said in another post on here just a page or two back (if I recall correctly) some kind of altercation was reported by both Adam Leventhal in the Athletic and Jason Burt, John Percy and Mike McGrath, all of the Telegraph, at the time. Sky Sports themselves also ran with a quote of 'a frank exchange of views' that was not attributed to anyone or any other report, implying that it was privileged material/something that a source had said to their reporters itself, rather than just a repetition of what another outlet had said.

    You are talking about a 'detailed account', and that it is the responsibility of those who are disputing it with 'rumour and hearsay' to prove otherwise, but A) that detailed account is from the person the story is about - the most potentially biased source it is possible to find, so to simply and immediately credit it as unimpeachable/the standard to judge on is misguided, and B) that 'rumour and hearsay' is reporting from some very prominent journalists - not, in fact, rumour and hearsay at all, and their accounts pre-date Pearson's by months, so if anything it is on Pearson and those who would like to automatically believe everything he says to disprove their version of events.

    None of these things prove it one way or the other beyond doubt, but you can't just wave your hand and make one side disappear when it has at least as much weight, if not on the balance of evidence far more, than the other, because you don't like it or just aren't aware of it up to this point.
    a19tgg likes this.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    You should give Tango in the Night a listen.
  10. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Whenever a Watford manager is sacked, I just assume the knives in his back have Troy's fingerprints on them. When Troy publicly expressed surprise at Pearson's sacking, I assumed he was lying. If Troy isn't first choice striker by Christmas no doubt he will be working his 'magic' to get rid of Ivic.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  11. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    OK. Ironically, ‘just waving it away’ was precisely what I thought the post to which I was responding to was doing, but from the other direction.

    I made very clear in my post that there might be accounts which I had missed, in which case I would need to rethink. I was only aware that there had been something in the Athletic.

    I am personally inclined to think that the account provided by Pearson is not incorrect but that it may be incomplete in some very important respects.
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well Deeney was very much in the team under Pearson despite carrying an injury so not sure how true that is.
  13. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    So when is Pearson's second spell with us due to start? November '21 I reckon.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  14. Little lies everywhere about a family man.
  15. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    On Radio 5, Cheers Nige said that he thought the sacking was possibly down to it being easier to get rid of him with 2 games left than if he had stayed for those two games and we stayed up.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  16. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well he was out of contract anyway wasn’t he ?
  17. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    He will be first choice because, despite everything, he’s still the best we’ve got.
  18. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Hi Troy
  19. WeveGotSteviePalmerNo1

    WeveGotSteviePalmerNo1 Academy Graduate

    that is utter pants, I heard that interview as well on Saturday, and it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The club lost (and I can't be bothered to lookup proper figures) something like ~£50m from relegation, and he thinks they would rather sack him to save maybe ~1-2m than give themselves the best shot at survival. That statement alone suggests he is a bit self absorbed and clueless.
    AndrewH63 likes this.
  20. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Surely he means easier as in selling it to the fans and the public, rather than financially?
  21. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I guess had we not kept him on after staying up it would have looked even more strange but the fact we sacked someone a week before they were out of contract suggests to me all was not well.

    And they didn't just think getting rid of Pearson was going to suddenly improved our results.
  22. Rookery Refugee

    Rookery Refugee First Year Pro

    I don't know that we have a detailed story of any kind. We have a few more details. What we don't have (and assuredly never will) is any of the details about the conversations that occurred really at any point during his tenure with club management, much less during the critical periods during the stoppage and after the restart. We have nothing regarding how anyone felt about the fitness or mindset of the players, anything about interactions between back room and training staff and Pearson and staff, nothing about interactions between Pearson and the senior executives. Nothing about discussions related to Pearson's personal health and whether he was fit enough to manage in the critical games. Was managing through COVID-19 Pearson's "Troy decides to try and play through his dodgy knee instead of getting it fixed over the summer" moment? And of course, nothing about the alleged rows between NP and GP or NP and players like Masina.

    Admittedly the Pozzos change managers as often as people change their socks, but the way this happened seemed uncharacteristic (being prevented entry etc.). Unfortunately, we have a lot of data points to look at when it comes to how Gino sacks people, and this is the only one that went down like this. Clearly there is significant more there than we know about. Likely no one showered themselves in glory over the period, but we really have virtually nothing new. You could sum up the whole article as "Clearly they were angrier than I thought, when I got to the grounds, they wouldn't let me in. Other people knew I was sacked before I did, and that really cheesed me off".

    It's all water over the dam at this point. I think most fans wanted Pearson to succeed for many, many reasons. It's doubly unfortunate that if a big part of why he didn't was he was that he was ill with the virus.
    Keighley likes this.
  23. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    That would be totally absurd.
  24. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Who can now go his own way.
  25. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    This reads like some sort of corny dialogue in a Steven Segal movie.

    "Troy graduated first in his class at West Point had 4 purple hearts, a congressional medal of honor and was the best damn soldier I've ever seen. If he's out there still, with these lunatics who are demanding $100m not to blow up the Statue of Liberty, then he's the best damn hope we've got."
    Cassetti's Beard and UEA_Hornet like this.
  26. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Yes it would. Fits the Pozzo model.
  27. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    *Cue Troy blowing up the Rookery to create a diversion so he can score a goal at the other end*
  28. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Don't give away the plan.[​IMG]
  29. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK Reservist

    Actually later Segal films are a remarkably good comparison to Deeneys last couple of years. Turned up on set looking fat, attempted to beat the bad guys by standing still and playing pat-a-cake, seemed to think he had put his all into the role with frankly no end result yet still got picked movie after movie by directors who obviously couldn't see what was obvious to the rest of us. Lived off past glories.

    Not sure how Stevens knees are holding up but some of our players get accused of stealing a living, this bloke wrote the book.
  30. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    Easier to sell than getting rid of Jokanovic after getting us promoted? If that is what he meant he had little realisation on how the club operated under Pozzo ownership. Even if we had stayed up with that extra win required at Villa pre Covid, (a six pointer), I doubt he would have stayed, because ultimately his last 12 results were poor.
  31. HEY HO

    HEY HO Academy Graduate

    Garry Monk reported to have been sacked by Sheff Wed.

    Expect Pearson to be a favourite to be appointed as their new manager.
  32. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Well he’s run a perfectly orchestrated PR campaign where he started off saying it wasn’t a good time to talk about working again, as it’s the time when managers come under pressure. Then gradually through to saying he might take a DOF role, or a manger role, then finally saying he’s ready for work and up for a new challenge, so it wouldn’t surprise me.
    Forzainglese and Happy bunny like this.
  33. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Could also be that Pearson isn't stupid - he's clearly a complex character but he's pretty switched on as well. Entirely (and likely IMO) plausible that a certain period of 'amnesty' regarding the sacking has lapsed and now his lips are I note he's on David Ornstein's latest podcast talking about it as well. Thats 4 media outlets in a week - its orchestrated and planned.

    I suspect also Pearson is out saying exactly as much as he can without giving potentially libellous crucial detail. And he's doing all this knowing the club are very very unlikely to come out and dispute his claims or give any more detail than they already have.

    The specific 'belief' is that he had a very heated row with Gino...if that happened, he's not going to harm his chances of future employment and put other chairmen/owners off him by detailing that is he? Far easier to claim wrongdoing and ill-treatment from a club widely recognised as a bit of a basket case. It's a slam dunk for him and his reputation, even if it's potentially far from the truth of what happened.
  34. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Well played, Nige!
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Still doesn't really stand up to the stress test of 'Gino Pozzo couldn't care less about that kind of press'....

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