Luis Suarez

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Moosegasm, May 28, 2020.

  1. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    22 years old, centre forward, 6'1, 17 goals this season. Can we bring him back to play this season after his loan expires or are we not allowed to update our squad list?
     
  2. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    He won’t be allowed to play for us this season. Whether we extend his loan so he can finish the Spanish season is another thing altogether...

    I’m hopeful about the player. But I must say, I’ve not been bowled over by some of his supposed comments about coming back or seeking a move. He’s contracted to us so should say as much.

    Just from their respective comments, Cucho seems more enthusiastic about playing for us and I have a fear that Suarez may turn into another Lukebakio situation.
     
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  3. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    No surprise Cucho might be enthusiastic at getting a chance in the PL (if we stay up) given that he's been poor in La Liga.
     
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  4. reids

    reids First Team

    Hasn't helped that he's been playing for awful teams (and had a long-term injury this season) tbf.
     
  5. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Perhaps.

    One thing which is important to note though given that many seem keen to make comparisons between Cucho and Suarez, is that Cucho certainly does not look to be a number 9. His playing style and the positions he's been used in have mostly been the same as, say, Success, i.e. as a left-sided forward or a second striker/10. We already have loads of players of this ilk in our squad if you also consider that Pereyra, Deulofeu, Penaranda, Welbeck and JP also all tend to occupy similar roles.

    Suarez meanwhile is an out-and-out striker, and so would be much more useful to our squad as it stands.
     
  6. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Seem to remember you saying this before - but any time I've seen him play on TV or online, he plays upfront as a central striker. And the statistical websites for football appear to back this up?

    Of 34 appearances last season, 29 were as CF.
    Of 11 appearances this season, 9 were as CF.

    What I will say is that, he hasn't really played as a lone-striker when I've watched him, if that's what you mean by a 'No.9'? But he certainly plays more centrally than out wide.
     
  7. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Well what we really need is competition for Deeney. Let's hope finally we have someone.
     
  8. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The vast majority of the time when he's played as a CF it's in a front 2, and then he's invariably the deeper of the 2. Even as a supposed "CF" he drops deep and drifts to the flanks a lot.

    So when I say he's not a number 9 I mean he doesn't play as a lone striker, nor as the lead the line striker in a front 2. I don't think it's really his game to be either. He's neither the focal point of an attack in the way Deeney is, nor a poacher in the style of Gray. He's a second/support striker, or attacking wide player.

    Here are Cucho's heatmaps from the last 2 seasons. At first glance they look more like an attacking winger than a CF. He's rarely in the area between the wdith of the penalty box and the halfway line.

    19/20:

    [​IMG]

    18/19:

    [​IMG]

    By contrast Suarez spends a much higher percentage of the time centrally, occupying CBs and often looking to run off the shoulder of the last man (though with the caveat that he also prefers the left-side of the pitch and has a few times been used as a left forward, albeit much less often than Cucho):

    19/20

    [​IMG]

    Here's Deeney's heatmap from this season for a comparison. As you can see the shape has much more in common with that of Suarez than Cucho, tending to spend more of his time between the width of the penalty box than outside of it:

    19/20

    [​IMG]

    https://www.sofascore.com/player/cucho-hernandez/887055
    https://www.sofascore.com/player/luis-javier-suarez/914213
    https://www.sofascore.com/player/troy-deeney/22109
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  9. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Here are a few more interesting heatmaps for comparison.

    This is Isaac Success in 18/19 (when he featured a bit more than this season). It is pretty similar to that of Cucho in 18/19:

    [​IMG]

    This is Gerard Deulofeu's from this season, some similarities to Cucho's from this season but also with far more additional involvement in and around the penalty box:

    [​IMG]

    This is Bobby Pereyra's this season. Similarly as (un)involved as Isaac Success was last season, reflecting his seemingly antipathetic season overall. Positionally he is also most similar to Cucho, but more often stopping on the edge of the box rather than occasionally getting in to it:

    [​IMG]

    Finally, this is Ante Budimir, Mallorca's CF (Cucho's club) - it is quite clear that at Mallorca he is the one doing the role more akin to Deeney's of occupying CBs, unlike Cucho.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    In summary, the heatmaps generally support the thoughts I had about Suarez and Cucho.

    Suarez positionally is most similar to Deeney. He does lack some of the effectiveness in central duels against CBs that one may look for in a target man-type striker. However, what he might lack a bit in some of the hold-up element of his play, he could make up for in being more of a goal threat off the shoulder of CBs and inside the penalty box.

    Cucho positionally is somewhere between Success, Deulofeu and Pereyra. Of concern is that his general heatmap and involvement in games seems pretty low - he seems to get involved at a similar level to Pereyra this season or Success last. This is in line with the impression I've had of him as often being on the periphery of games.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  11. reids

    reids First Team

    The dark red patch in the middle of the centre circle made me laugh here. We spend a lot of time kicking off :(
     
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  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

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  13. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The most amusing for that is Cucho's for 18/19 - he seemed to have almost as many touches from kick-offs as he did in the entirety of the opposition penalty box.
     
  14. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

  15. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

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  16. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    He’s pointing at the ground, yes that’s the huge divot you created when hit the ball like a bunker shot.
     
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  17. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    He would tear up the pitches in this league.
     
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  18. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    So this player that caused an awful of BWing when we sold him, has scored 7 goals La Liga goals and 1 assist since. At an average of 1 goal per 345 mins, and an assist per 2420 mins.

    He was sold for more than it cost the club to buy Dennis, Joao Pedro, Cucho and King together.
     
  19. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Have we got a buy back option?
     
  20. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    I hope not
     
  21. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Think of the potential loan fees man
     
  22. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    The only bed wetting I can remember was over the circumstances of how he left, being pictured with his new club before we’d announced it.
     
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  23. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    No there was a fair amount about the act of selling him in itself
     
  24. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    And the other chap …
     
  25. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Understandable really. A bloke nobody had heard of, or seen play was likely to be more effective than our other options.
     
  26. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    To be honest I thought it was good business he hadn't played for us and we needed to cut our costs and bring in some revenue from somewhere.
    Although I said from the start we had a good enough squad for automatic promotion. Even though a lot of people didn't agree.
     
  27. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Also it made for space for Pedro to develop and play .
     
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  28. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Looking like we mugged them off right now.
     
  29. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    We re-structured the Joao Pedro deal - so he’s didn’t get sold for more than those players.

    Also worth noting, a lot of us wanted Luis Suarez a year ago when we were in the Championship. And the stats you list aren’t much (or at all) worse than Cucho in La Liga in the same kind of timeframe…but Cucho has done well so not really sure it’s a viable comparison.
     
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  30. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    That's not that bad really.

    Plus he's still just 23.
     

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