Guidence on a legal position

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by inayellowshirt, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. inayellowshirt

    inayellowshirt From the other place

    A rare somber post for me.

    I normally wouldnt want to put myself forward in a public domain on this sort of matter, but bearing in mind the wide spectrum of people that visit here I want to seek some guidence on the options available to me.

    At the beginning of the year I submitted a formal complaint of medical negligence to an NHS Trust. Sorry I don't want to explain it here, other than it was traumatic experience.

    Prior to the complaint, I obtained the medical records from the same authority through the Freedom of Information act.

    This week I received their official response, which dismissed my evidence and used some documents to "prove" their case. However the document they submitted has been altered later by someone to include a date that wasn't there in the copy I obtained in January. They are trying to cover up their negligence by falsifying medical documents.

    So my dilemma is this.

    Bearing in mind you have to send the initial complaint to the chief operating officer of the NHS trust.. who do I turn to now? How can I trust anyone there?

    The negligence case is quite complex so some solicitors didn't want it except some no win no fee types who I don't fully trust. Although the proof I have of the falsifying document changes the balance of the case. Is this simple civil legal action?

    NHS ombudsman appears to be a sham according to the reviews and complaints I have read, so want to avoid them.

    Is this a matter for the Police now? Not sure if its something for them.

    I could go to the press but not sure this is the best thing to do.

    Local MP?

    Government NHS secretary?

    Just some thoughts from anyone who thinks they can advise please. Happy to go private message on this.
     
  2. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Maybe these people can help?
    http://nhscomplaintsadvocacy.org/

    I would certainly say it strengthens your case in a civil action.

    Surprised about what you say about the NHS ombudsman, that was going to be my initial suggestion.

    Good luck!
     
    inayellowshirt likes this.
  3. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Unfortunately the NHS ombudsman is part of the process - you *have* to play by their rules.

    Your "friendly" MP could be very useful.
     
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  4. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Not if it’s going to litigation. NHS ombudsman is not supposed to touch it then.

    Agree it is worth a chat with the MP.
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  5. inayellowshirt

    inayellowshirt From the other place

    May give them a call... Thank you
     
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    With any complaint the key question for me is always, 'what do you want out of this?' That should inform your approach.

    You seem to hold all the cards if you have a copy of a document which has later been changed. As long as you keep the original sent to you I don't see much harm in escalating through the NHS Trust's complaints process.

    MP will just get a caseworker (ie. the newest uni graduate on their staff) to draft a letter on their behalf to the NHS trust chief exec asking about your case. Will probably signpost you to the Ombudsman too. Government minister would probably do even less. Has your MP got any record of showing interest in health issues?

    You won't be able to go to the Ombudsman until you've completed the NHS complaints process anyway.

    I can't see a police angle on the (understandably) scant information provided.
     
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  7. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I am not sure but I think these people are your next step.

    https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/

    It wasn't a sham as far as my case went, as I managed to get a Pensions Ombudsman's decision overturned by them. I had to go through my MP ( a letter of explanation seemed adequate), they then write to the above, and it all took several months, but it worked in the end.

    The problem is that it is all a bit of a conveyor belt with relatively lower grade people making the decision. It may be that you should focus on the altering of the documents first. They may be more likely to find in your favour, I suggest. If successful, then go for the real complaint.

    Please let us know the outcome, as I am now going through an NHS complaint, too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  8. inayellowshirt

    inayellowshirt From the other place

    Yes our MP is very interested in local health issues.

    I think we have the option of the ombudsman, as long as its before we go legal. The best outcome of the ombudsman I guess is to reverse the decision of the trust that they did nothing wrong. Which if they then admit their mistake, we have a case for compensation.

    I'd normally be hesitant to want to sue the NHS but the magnatude their mistake has had on us warrants it in our opinion.
     
  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The only other things I would throw into the pot are:

    - I believe there's a 3 year time limit for bringing a medical negligence claim in the civil courts. I presume whatever happened was a while ago as you referred earlier to requesting paperwork in January, so that clock is already well and truly running.

    - You do have to complete the NHS complaints process before you go to the ombudsman, otherwise they'll just point you back in that direction. And yes, if you file legal papers at any point that takes it outside of the ombudsman's jurisdiction.

    - Ombudsmen are okay for financial remedy if you've suffered an easily quantifiable financial loss (eg. damaged property) or for putting a token figure on something. But if you have specific losses in mind (eg. loss of earnings), believe there might be ongoing harm that needs to be compensated for (eg. pain) or would like punative damages, you're best off going to court I would say.
     
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  10. inayellowshirt

    inayellowshirt From the other place

    Yes end of last year

    The came back to us last week with their findings saying they had done everything "by the book", but presented that falsified evidence as part of their assessment.


    This is where the case becomes complicated, but I won't explain on here. Can do over PM if you feel your experience can assist. Punative damages maybe the nearest explanation I think.
     
  11. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Really sorry to hear that you’ve had a difficult time IYS and hope that whoever is affected will recover in time.

    Some good advice from other people, to which I would only add a note of caution about 'falsified' evidence. You will know how important it was to the Trust's case and if it was very important then it's definitely worth concentrating on.

    However, if it is incidental to the main thrust of the case don't put all your hopes on it. There is a great deal in medical notes and records that is inaccurate, unsatisfactory, added later etc. Proving that it is falsified (rather than just an error) is a high bar and you could expend much effort trying to eliminate it to find that an adjudicator of any sort says 'so what?'

    The important things include, how consent was carried out, was it well-informed at each stage, were investigations thorough, was treatment planning responsible, timely and in accordance with protocols and at all stages was the care given of a sufficient standard, including the aftercare?

    Good luck and if there has been a harm done don't feel bad about pursuing it.
     
    zztop likes this.
  12. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Good advice @Moose.
     
  13. inayellowshirt

    inayellowshirt From the other place

    Thanks for this, just come off the phone with them.

    We have been advised to write back with our issues on their response and to request a "local resolution meeting". If we are still unhappy following that, then to proceed to the Ombudsman.
     
  14. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    OK, great. Glad to be of help. Keep us posted!
     
  15. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I have very close relationship with an nhs trust board. The advice is the ombudsmen is a waste of time. You need a solicitor if it's clear evidence has been fabricated.
    Max this particular trust has ever paid out via the ombudsmen claim is £500. Fine for very small claims.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  16. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    I am close to a board and attend some meetings.
    As others have said you need to follow the process or you will be pointed back.
    Your local area will have a "healthwatch" group who you should seek out and speak to them, Id also speak to the CQC with your complaint, they have the kind of leverage that trust boards will listen too in terms of taking you seriously.
     
  17. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I have become embroiled in a couple of lengthy disputes with public bodies down the years and going into battle with these organisations is a time consuming ball-ache! If funds allow try to employ as much professional help as you can. The people you are taking on know 'the system' and it pays to have someone on your side that does too. I wish you every success - but be prepared for months or even years of frustration and irritation that will become all consuming. Ask yourself if you're prepared for that before pursuing whatever action you choose. Good luck to you
     

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