Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Lloyd, Dec 22, 2020.
I'm happy we're winning.
I totally get why he's pi**ed off. Those of us who actually take a stance one way or the other are derided by fence sitters when proved wrong after events unfold, not before hand. It's pretty pathetic and akin to trolling someone who has a very valid opinion.
I agree with you, when someone has expressed in a reasonable way, and accepted other opinions too. But if someone has belittled others and is on a high horse with their original comment, like the post below, I'm sure they can take a little ribbing back.
This isn't a dig at Burnsy either by the way, as I know he is big enough to take it as well as give it.
Sorry Diamond this doesn't make sense. You are implying that those that "actually" take a stance are showing some strength, but then expect that a "wrong" stance to be quietly forgotten when events unfold. That logic doesn't work, does it?
I'm with @HappyHornet24 on this, the if we battle on here for our opinions to be heard and respected then we should expect some "mickey taking" type come back if we get proved wrong. It is all about accepting consequences for our actions. Those that don't have the strength to take a little bit of gloating have the option of sitting on the fence in the first place, or they complain like wimps, if it happens.
By the way, it is one of the benefits of taking a default stance of looking ahead with a glass half-full attitude. Then if I succeed then it can be a 100% guilt free enjoyment of the success, even with a little gloating. Whereas there is no joy in being proved right if I had taken a glass half-empty stance and any attempt at gloating is somewhat awkward (a point I will stress if I am on the receiving end).
Everyone should try and take a default positive "can do" stance when looking ahead in life, it is far more comfortable, enjoyable and rewarding. So when I was met with derision on here when I said about a month ago that we should be trying to overhaul Norwich for the top spot even though the odds were heavily against it (as I thought they would start to wobble), I did it in the knowledge that I am likely to get stick if it doesn't happen.
Of course, in life in general the main reason for being taking a "I can do, glass half-full" rather than a "I'm realistic, glass half-empty" attitude is because our we are likely to be proved right whatever our stance so long as we have a degree of input and control into what happens.
Here endeth my Easter Message.
I think when it comes to your own life, then yes everyone should try and take a glass half full attitude as you have control over your own destiny, so having a positive attitude about your own prospects is obviously going to be a benefit.
When it comes to a football club over which none of us have any control, we should all be allowed to view things how we want to view them, based on our own interpretation of events, decisions made and the data at hand.
You saying we could/should overhaul Norwich isn’t the reason it will happen if it happens is it? Whether you take a positive or negative mindset over it will make absolutely no difference at all.
A football forum is ultimately a completely futile waste of time in that anything said on it has no bearing on the outcome of things.
Advocating that everyone takes a default positive view point over everything would surely render this place completely pointless?
On a forum such as this, strong opinions one way or the other are absolutely vital for it's survival. I like reading about and posting positive and negative posts when I get such thoughts. When those opinions are attacked with the wonder of hindsight, then all it does is make the person who originally posted them think twice next time. Over time such attacks will destroy the community. It could be renamed WFCFenceSitters.com.
Please note, I'm not saying opinions shouldn't be questioned or argued, but to attack someone after the event and not show your hand when the original post is made is simply the act of a coward, a snake, the lowest form of forum life.
Yes I agree with this. I gave ZZ some stick for saying we were very likely to be promoted about 8 games ago so I’m very happy both that he has been proved right and also to take some grief for being wrong on this occasion.
I hear what you’re saying but I do seem to remember some of the most negative on here being very eager to quite aggressively disparage those who weren’t as being pathetic “happy clappers”. The trolling goes both ways. If you dish it out, you have to be prepared to take a bit back. My issue is with those who aggressively go for posters simply for having a different view to them. A bit of ribbing is fine in my book - trying to humiliate or belittle someone simply for having a view that doesn’t fit with your own is not.
I think it’s one thing to disagree with peoples subjective opinions, that’s the basis of the forum and as long as you can hold your hands up if proven wrong then it’s all good. I think trawling back and gloating over individual games and binary outcomes like promotion either happening or not happening is pretty pathetic and pointless though. We all want promotion, we all want to win every game and we all want out our rivals to lose every game. It doesn’t mean we all have to predict all of that will happen in every round of games, that we’ll definitely go up, that we’ll catch Norwich etc. You can only assume the people that gloat over that sort of thing are multi millionaires through winning football accumulators every week.
Indeed. Up until a few months ago, a group of around a dozen very aggressive posters collectively rounded on anyone who disagreed with their pervasive negativity. That period was probably the most unpleasant I can recall this forum being. There were a few people who stopped posting on here because of it.
Oddly enough, those aggressive posters weren't quite so magnanimous back then. The reality is that if you treat people like that some are going to ram it back down your throat again later.
Of course, any gloating rights only exist for those that were clearly on the "opposite side" in the earlier debates. Hindsight should not be a factor. We have some way to go yet before we get promoted yet, as I wouldn't be entering the play-offs with so much confidence as that is a lottery, but if we succeed through automatic promotion then I think I am allowed a little gloating over those who gave me a lot of stick over the past few months as I predicted automatic promotion.
And, to be honest, I don't think many of them will whinge about it.
Yes, I did qualify my "half glass-full" attitude in life by saying that there obviously has to be an element of control and self determination.
Well, you may remember that I said that we had a chance of overhauling Norwich as I thought they may start to drop points over the run in, and then it becomes a bit of a mind/attitude problem for them as they see their points lead ebb away. You are absolutely right that me thinking that (sat at my keyboard) has no effect. But it was my view that the coach and players should be aiming for that top slot, instead of trying to hang on for the second spot. My view was that it could help us cement an auto promotion slot, even if we still missed out on top spot. That would have been the right attitude for the coach and players to have. Many on here said that the team should only aim for second spot and that was the basis of me getting some stick.
Robbo a week or two ago on Hive said we should be looking at top spot, and Smart and Mooney, as I type this, are speaking about having to win their matches in 1999 was easier than our current position where we can afford to slip up. That is why we should be raising our target to top spot, as we have to win every game to have a chance of that happening.
My view about our squad is that it has always been good enough (talent-wise) for an automatic slot. That wasn't about having a glass half-full mindset, it was about my judgement on the players we had. My frustration was that two successive coaches had not got the squads potential out there on the pitch and that in my opinion we had a divisive, poisonous influence in the club.
Finally, I believe some players will look at this forum, and if they didn't then their mates will tell them what is said on here. I think that a young player making his debut, or a new player to the squad from another country will not be able to avoid opinions of him, and that is why we should be more positive with players early in their Watford career, and give them more time. I also think a positive atmosphere on here also has an effect on the team - it is not futile. A crowd at a game also has no direct control on what happens on the pitch, but it is still influential. Forum positivity is not as influential, but I think it has some effect. That said, I don't think it negativity should be banned, curtailed or censored or anything like that, but I have the right to criticise it when I like.
This wasn’t the ‘original comment’ and was actually a reply to a post which would be more accurately framed as the ‘original’ and had just as much ‘belittling’ contained within it.
Anyway, I couldn’t care less really about all this! I think my concerns about things were reasonable at the time - and have been largely allayed since. That’s not at all uncommon in life! I think popping up after 4 months trying to claim some sort of ‘gotcha’ moment was a bit of a stretch really, that’s all! I wasn’t pi$$ed off about it as some have suggested - just not surprised at the tone given the source of the comment!
You’re suggesting I did this? As all this debate is about someone ‘ramming it down my throat’?
I was right that Ivic needed to go
I was right that Deeney needed to stop playing
I was right that we needed to switch from that awful 4-4-2
I was right that we needed to get Pedro playing.
I was wrong in thinking that Munoz wouldn't have the brains or courage to listen to me and I hold my hands up.
Don't believe I quoted or named you. I was contributing to the general discussion.
I’m in NYC now (hence why I’ve barely contributed for a couple of months!) - will probably be reaching out for advice soon enough!
I have Arakel on ignore (one of two I do) because he is a sanctimonious bore, but can’t resist replying to this. Arakel has without fail dismissed any negative criticism of the ownership as we foolishly headed towards losing our premier league status. I believed things would get even worse given our financial problems but thankfully we have a great shot of going back up. I’m happy to agree I’m completely wrong about the bounce back attempt (whatever happens). I’m almost certain you won’t find Arakel giving any ground about his numerous false declarations last season. The man is an absolute prig. Can’t stand the bloke.
How do you know Arakel made the original comment if you have him on ignore?!
As Burnsy replied to nothing and it doesn’t need Holmes to analyse my two man shortlist?
Ok Miss Marple