Andrew French Official - Transcript In Full

Offical Andrew French One Posted Below. Will be updated as he posts them.

 

Here is the official one from French. Part One.

The opening section of last night's fans forum Q&A with Watford owner Gino Pozzo and chairman Scott Duxbury looked at the hiring and firing of managers.

Below are the first set of questions, each with their respective answer:

The appointment that was made last summer ended quite quickly. What do you feel went wrong with the appointment of Rob Edwards?

Gino Pozzo (GP): “I think that like any coach or any player, there is a fit. You either get a good fit and things work out, or you don’t and you can quite see that things aren’t developing in the right way. It’s not a matter of the quality of the coach. We’ve seen it before with many coaches, who have very good profiles, who were not successful in one place and then moved to another place and are much more successful.


“Let’s say we saw the work, we saw the approach and it was not working for us. Maybe the fact that he goes to Luton and it works there can mean something more different from us and Luton. It was really about that.”

In terms of the appointment you have made now, what do you think you’ve done differently when it comes to appointing Valerien Ismael?

GP: “We have a way of seeing what we want from our team. We want our team, in all aspects, to work hard. And not just work hard in a general way. We want to take care of a lot of the aspects that comes into the play, and so we want to take care of the players on and off the pitch.

“We want to have a certain discipline inside the changing room. We want to make sure that they are coached and are prepared for the kind of game that we want to see on the pitch.

“And when the Technical Director went to interview a different number of options, this was the one that ticked all the boxes. Then of course sometimes when you come in there are things that don’t work out quite as you expected.

“But in this case even the fact that this coach had experience at this level. We saw when we got promoted in the year with Xisco, we were all particularly impressed with two teams, and I think it was Brentford, and it was Norwich who were playing a more predictable type of game.

“But these were the two teams who were a bit of a surprise, and we saw a level that, in a way we wanted to see in our team.

“That’s why we believe in this case it’s a much stronger appointment and a better fit.”

Did you do anything different though? Were you looking for something different compared to, say, Rob last summer?

GP: “Well we wanted to make sure the kind of approach to training and to discipline was of a certain standard. And we think that we have found this with this coach.”

The difference in terms of strategy and style came across quite strongly. What are your thoughts if Watford fans say we’ve lacked a structure and style, we’ve been far too reactive, and we need a clearer strategy and a continuation on the head coaches – like we’ve seen at Brighton, the clarity from one to the next?

GP: “In this case we are looking for a certain coach that is proactive, for example, in recovering the ball. Someone that doesn’t like to sit back and wait. Someone that likes to go more proactively recovering the ball.

“So we’re looking for a high intensity and so of course around that you need a certain type of players. And of course you need a coach that actually wants to do that. In this case we have stressed more certain attributes.

“When you are going out to sign a coach during the season you are much more limited. Depending on the moment you have to be a bit more flexible in your choice.

“But in this case we had more time – we had more time to confirm this appointment and I want to thank the technical staff because they’ve done a very good job, both Cristiano and Ben, who joined us in November. I think that this has been done with much more care.

“I think there are a lot of points that brought this coach together and so we don’t expect any surprise.

“Also the fact that the coach has been involved earlier and so has been able to participate also in the profile of the players that we wanted to keep, the players that we want to move out, and the players that we want to sign – this should guarantee higher degrees of a better fit between the team and the coach.”

You had a clear picture of what you wanted this coach to be, but it has felt we’ve gone from one type of coach to another type of coach to another; a disciplinarian to a cuddler to an attacker to a build from the back. Do you think you now have a clearer picture of what you have more consistently?

GP: “Look, some of the choices were not only dictated by the profile but also the style of the coach. We have an advantage, we are here every day. We really don’t need to look at the games to understand what is going on.

“And most of the time you see how the team is reacting during the training, and how they work during the week. And you can really have a good expectation of what will happen over the weekend.

“When you see that going on week after week, day after day, the results on the pitch tend to reflect very closely what you see in training. It’s not just about getting a couple of bad results. It’s more about what you see.

“They’re going to change, or not. Because if you don’t see any change during the training, of the training regime, how would you expect the situation to improve?

“In the case of Xisco - who I think did a brilliant job for us in the Championship and who had a closer philosophy – remember when we switched from Ivic to Xisco it was more because it was not a good fit at that time with the players we had, in terms that there was not the ability of bringing the game to the opponent. Xisco has been much more proactive in that sense.

“Moving to the Premier League we were feeling that there was a lack probably of confidence of achievements in that moment, so we looked for a more experienced profile. And Ranieri was most definitely offering that, but what you gain on the one side you lose on the other.

“And then, going back to what we were saying earlier, you get a coach like Roy Hodgson, who had been very successful at Crystal Palace. So again you expect that as a short-term appointment you can do a job, and then he comes in you see, wow, it’s not ok.

“Not because he isn’t a good coach. He’s an excellent coach and we saw that every day. We go back to, yes, sometimes we make decisions based on what you’re looking at. When you make a mistake on the first coach and the first is not working, you try to react to that because when you see what is going on at the training every day will not change, then sorry, I can’t wait for something to happen inevitably.

“I prefer to expose myself, and change and admit the mistake that we make, and try to fix it.

“In fact, most of the time if you remember in the past, it was not much correcting mistakes, it was more like changing course.

“For example the first time when we got promoted with Jokanovic. And we actually did not confirm Jokanovic, and we went for Quique Sanchez Flores. So it’s not about results. We just achieved a great result and we changed the coach. Why? Because we saw that there was an opportunity to improve.

“Of course the easiest decision would have been to confirm the coach, but we went for something different because we felt there was something missing. And so we are not shy of making that decision always when we see there is a possibility for improvement.

“Most of the time we got that right. You’re not always gonna get it right, and I know that. But I’d rather take that decision and I’d rather make a mistake once in a while and say I’ve given 100%.

“I really want the best for the club and I’m not going to say that and protect myself. I prefer to expose myself and be my best for the club. Sometimes we make mistakes. If we don’t do anything it’s difficult to make mistakes.

“But it’s a matter of how you face the problem in front of you. I know that you probably would have preferred to sit back and say ‘ok, we’re not gonna do anything and that’s how it’s gonna be’.

“Sorry but we’re not gonna go down, or we’re not not going to go up without a fight. That I can promise you.”

 

Part Two:

The next part of the fans' forum Q&A looked at the prospects for new head coach Valerien Ismael, how players are being recruited for him, and also previous coach Rob Edwards - and that famous 'hell or high water' comment...

If you go back to 2019, Javi Gracia had four games, Xisco had 20 or so, then Rob Edwards 10. Isn’t that insanity in a way? You’d have sacked Steve Cooper wouldn’t you at Forest? My question is how long does Valerien get? If we’ve only got 16 points from 10 games, would you sack him? I’ve a feeling the fans are more patient than you are at times. It would just be good to know for the fanbase. We look for stability and a coaching style. You know we’re quite a patient fanbase so does Valerien get more than 10 games if he’s only got 16 points on board?


GP: “As I was saying before, you only get to see the coach once a week. We get to see him every day. So maybe we are less patient because we see things happen every single day. When you mention with Javi Gracia – if you look the dip in form started the year before. I think it was, like, out of the last 16 games we lost 13 and won one. We’re not just looking at the last game.

“We see what’s going on with the team and we saw there was a negativity here. You also have to remember that at that time, in all the games that we were playing, he didn’t see that either Deulofeu or Sarr could be an asset to the team. He was not playing any of the two players. He played Deulofeu in the semi-final and he came in at the very last.

“There was clearly, as I said, a disalignment between certain ideas that we wanted to carry forward and what the coach was thinking. So we didn’t get results for a relatively long period of time. It becomes difficult to say ‘well I’m going to support him no matter what’.

“We know that in order to be successful we need to find stability in the coach. What you have here is stability within the club. If you are looking around what we have here has been stable over the years, and is what we have been able to build on.

“Of course in order to achieve extraordinary results on the pitch – we have achieved some very good results – in order to improve that we need to find the right coach. We all know that.

“The thing is that so far, looking back, you can probably blame some appointments. But do I regret not having in charge any of the coaches for much longer? I personally don’t. I don’t think that any of the coaches that we had, that done a good job once, was the perfect fit.

“We are a bit like that in that sense. We are professionals. We push some concepts to the limit and I do appreciate that we all would enjoy some greater deal of stability. But we do need to find the right shape and in that sense we are also being, I think, improving the staff and the people around in order to help the coach in his work. And we are getting closer and closer to that. And we feel well about the next appointment because we feel that the style, the approach that he has, the philosophy is what the coach wants.

“I think football has changed in general. You see that managers anyway don’t stay in one place for too long even when they are successful. So you cannot count on the coach as it was before to give stability. So we prefer to offer stability through the Technical Director and all the people around, the scouting, that provides this ability of signing players that have a sense for the club. And then we have to find the right coach that brings all this assets together.

“Of course they need to stay with us long enough to develop this plan. That is a challenge and that is what we are doing in our work.

“Nevertheless, even with this change, the kind of the coaches that have been with us has not been ideal but the results that we have achieved I think has been impressive. At the end, even without this ideal philosophy we’ve still been able to deliver some exceptional results on the pitch.

“We know what we need to do. We clearly need to have a stable coaching staff with us in order to move to the next level. But even without them, if you look at the change of managers how would you expect to have the kind of results we have achieved? That means whatever we are doing in the back is really giving a solid base to this club. If we keep on going, if we get the appointment right, if we get the right man, we can have a coach that, most importantly, not only stays here. Many of the coaches we probably don’t want them to stay any longer because it was not a good fit for us.

“If we are able to actually share this philosophy and have this philosophy then we will have even greater success. We are all looking forward to that.”

You talked about a new group of players being assembled. Will we recruit the players to the manager’s style? In terms of Rob Edwards, where we started with this, and the fact he was playing Kamara on the right because he didn’t have a right wing-back. Everybody was looking at what was going on and expecting something to be done. Are we going to recruit to Valerien Ismael’s style?

GP: “As I was explaining before, we had a philosophy this time to also have an early appointment. With the coach we are able to share with him the idea. What is he looking for? We then do not ask the manager for specific names, more the style of a player. With the ability of our coaching staff we will be able to bring names that are better than what the coach is proposing.

“Because of course if you look at a coach that has played in the Championship then most likely he will be bringing names from this league. Our coaching staff is really looking at players all over the world.

“Then we go back and once we have identified the prospects, of course we go back to the manager. We share with him the kind of profile and we always accept what the managers have to say. In this particular case with this particular manager, the signings we are doing currently are all signings we have agreed in terms of style and profile.

“And the players that are staying is just the same. That process doesn’t work with the young players for example. We have very young players that we’re scouting and then signing, and then they are not having an immediate impact. For example, when we went and signed Asprilla or Pedro, we didn’t ask the manager.

“We signed Pedro, we brought him over and then eventually the manager finds that he has Pedro. If Joao Pedro becomes an important player of course you want a manager who, when he comes in, doesn’t tell you he doesn’t want to play with Joao Pedro.

“It’s important that you find a manager who actually knows how to work with your best assets. Because when you bring together your best players with the right manager then we believe we will achieve the best.”

On the head coach appointment and particularly Rob Edwards, there was a very memorable quote at the start of the season with regards to ‘hell and high water’ and then obviously the statement Rob Edwards had left the club made by yourself Gino. In terms of how that’s been over the years, is there any sort of animosity between yourselves?

Scott Duxbury (SD): “Yes [joke]. I think, with hindsight, every decision can be questioned and probably regretted. At the time we were resetting in the summer, and wanted to do everything in our power to give all the support, from the supporters, the club, everything.

“So everybody I think, unanimously, was behind Rob and behind the club. Even though we’d been relegated we’d had the Elton concert and it felt like the start of a new dawn. And we genuinely believed that’s what it was.

“Then we go back to Gino’s comment about observing the training, the work etc. I don’t need to go over the reasons why Rob unfortunately left. But at the time we genuinely, and I genuinely, meant what I said. We wanted to give Rob all the support and all the backing, and take away the stigma around coach removal, and we’re finally going to have a coach that stays.

“To take Gino’s point about the changing of the coaches – we were talking about this yesterday. Everything about this club is really good. We’ve got a great scouting network, a great foundation. We’re just one appointment away from that next level. If we can get that coach, if we can get that stability – which I fully agree with that we need – we can move to that next level.

“People laud Brighton and their scouting network. They've got Estupinan, who was here. They signed Pedro, who was here. We’ve got one of the best scouting networks in the world. What Brighton have got is that continuity of coach. When Potter left they continued the same style, with a clear vision. We believe we’ve got that now which hopefully this coach can take.

“We are that one appointment away from moving back to where we were. I repeat what Gino said: the reason we achieved great success over the last 10 years, six years in the Premier League, an FA Cup Final. Would I sign for that for the next 10 years? Absolutely.

“We achieved that with the constant change of coaches because of the stability behind the scenes. But do we want the stability of the coach and move onto the next step? Of course we do. And hopefully we’ve found that.”

 

Part Three:

Up next in the Fans' Forum at the training ground last night, there was discussion around coaches and cukture, as well as the roles and responsibilities of the owner, the Technical Director and the Sporting Director.

I’ve been supporting Watford since ’72. The last four years have probably been the worst that I’ve felt supporting the club. Not for the reason that the players are worse than they have been before, but more about what the expectation is of our club. So I’m going to be greedy and ask you two questions. Gino, how important is a coach to you? Because when I look at the players out on the pitch that we’re watching every single week, it feels toxic, it feels they’re lazy, it feels they’re not motivated. How much of that is through a culture of revolving doors of coaches? If they’re not playing well the coach goes. You don’t do that to the players, you do it to the coaches. At my work if my boss changed every four months with a different philosophy every four months, I would say I’ve had enough. If I was not then paid my bonuses that I have earned, I’d say I’ve had enough. And I look at those players at the moment and I think you could get Pep in and they wouldn’t be able to shine on that pitch. I’ve not got onto the second question yet, you’ve got to answer that first one. The second question is a sort of A and B. The A is how much have we actually paid in severance payments to our ex-managers? We’re not a rich club. We average 20,000 although when I go to the ground it looks like 14,000. But we don’t have a lot of money, so how much have we paid in severance payments to these head coaches is part A. And part B is what’s your philosophy moving forward? Are you going to change your approach or is this the way’s it’s going to be moving forward? Have we just go to hope that we’re going to get lucky?


GP: “Well then I must be a very lucky man, because the club’s times over the last few years were the best ones along with the Elton times. And actually I think it comes as a compliment to me that the expectation has raised. When we arrived the expectation was quite different.

“Possibly the evaluation of this last season is because, through the hard work of people at this club over the last 10 years, we all expect something more.

“When we arrived I don’t think anybody was really disappointed about not being in the Premier League. There was other urgency, other needs.

“We understand as the club grows, expectation will also become different, become greater. And as I was telling you before, and as Scott was saying, we all know that the change of manager is not ideal. In fact that is the thing we need to fix, we need to find a manager that truly fits into the philosophy.

“We are stable and that is what has enabled us to have great results even without a stable appointment. As I said before, that’s the part where we have to work harder and we have to fix it. We know, because from my previous experience in football in Udinese, the greatest result we achieved was when a manager was in place long enough to carry out a technical project. But you need the right manager.

“In general it’s not very easy because when I look around let’s see how many clubs of our size have been able to achieve that and keep the manager long enough. Most of the clubs got promoted and got relegated, and changed the manager right after. That’s what happened in most of the occasions.

“It’s tricky, most possibly the most difficult appointment. That’s what makes it really important for the players. You see how players react to different managers. We are not here to protect the players but we know what the players will give us. So that’s the goal of the manager, he needs to manage the players.

“If he’s not able to manage then maybe we don’t have the right appointment. We have a particular group, we have a quite different set, there are a lot of different skills, a lot of different personalities, a lot of different backgrounds – which requires a different method.

“As you saw in the past, there were some managers who were able to get somewhere. We mentioned Xisco before – players were actually behaving differently. So was a player lazy before Xisco, and then became not lazy with Xisco? We have to say that in that case the manager was able to do his job properly and was able to get the players to be part of the plan.

“Of the current players we have, we have great quality but you need to get to them. Otherwise, in our set up, each club has to decide what is the way you want to go? You can just go with local players and have much more unity in that sense. While that makes it easy you might have to compromise maybe in quality. Because if you only look locally maybe your resources will be reduced.

“We approach this in a different way and so we have to be consistent, and we need to find a manager who is able to bring all this group together. When that happens, and in the past it has happened quite often. We haven’t been in the Premier League and we haven’t got to the FA Cup Final by invitation. We rightly deserved to be there because we done an extraordinary job.

“In order to surpass that we need more manager stability. We do agree on that.”

Mr Pozzo, you mention about you are here every day. Do you think that might be part of the problem, that a coach doesn’t want you here all the time, looking over their shoulder? Every single time it’s the manager. Every single time it’s the wrong manager. We’re either really bad at hiring, or we’re really good at firing – or a combination of both. Also, what about the underlying culture? Is there anything else underpinning that’s been identified for change in order to support each of the next managers? Something that we’ve learnt rather than the fact it’s always the manager?

SD: “To answer the question with regard to our new coach Valerien. We asked him what went wrong at West Brom. They had the best start in their history and were unbeaten in 11 games. He said what went wrong there was there was no support.

“There was no Technical Director, the owner was in China and he just felt isolated. When problems were occurring he had no solution and eventually things just unravelled for him.

“One of the attractions for him coming here – he had many options – was the support that is there. He looked at the fact the owner was based here, that the owner was passionate about football, that we had the scouting network, and that if there was an issue he had immediacy to resolve it.

“He loved the fact that he had a Sporting Director and a Technical Director. He needed and wanted that level of support, that daily interaction. He viewed it positively. If there was a problem he could solve it instantly.

“So I personally don’t see it as a hindrance I see it as a positive. I don’t want to keep harping on about it, but why we have achieved historical success – of course we need to do things differently and we’ve talked about the stability of coach – but why we have achieved historical success, and why I’m excited about this coach is he knows exactly what it is here, he knows exactly how we operate and that is the strength that he wants. That is the support that he requires.

“We’ve talked about what we want as a style of play, we want that work ethic, we want the high press. We want to entertain. We want to go to The Vic and enjoy a performance and a win. Then we’ll see how it goes. Expectation about promotion and doing well – I just want us to perform.

“I want to see a style of play that we can all identify and we can turn up week in, week out, knowing we’re going to see commitment, passion and a performance. And that’s what our coach wants to deliver, and part of how he’s going to deliver it is what we have, and the set-up we have here.

“So I don’t see it as a negative, I see it as a fundamental positive – and why what went wrong for him at West Brom won’t go wrong here.”

Some people feel that owner isn’t a job, it’s a status. Can you enlighten what your role is day to day around here for people who don’t work in football and don’t know all the job titles? What is it that you focus on in and around the training ground?

GP: “It’s more setting that philosophy. That idea of what we want, that sense of perfection. Then of course it’s about the people that help to do that.

“You don’t see me watching the training. You don’t see me participating in the team meetings. For all of that we have a Sporting Director and a Technical Director. But in the background there is a clear philosophy that we are carrying forward. Which is something unique and that’s the stability at this club.

“We’ve done something quite different from the past, and I’m sure a lot of you when we implemented certain policies – remember when we just arrived we brought in a lot of foreign players. Everyone said ‘They’ve got it completely wrong. It’s impossible to win this league if you don’t have a solid, strong English core, English manager. That’s the way you got to do it’.

“Well we knew if we were doing what everybody else was, most likely it would not work out in a better chance. I think someone from the audience was reminding me we are a small club in a sense. So we need to do something different to really progress.

“That’s why we need to have a solid philosophy and sometimes you have to get out of the normal, or what is considered the normal. But changing coaches is not that. We have done a lot of things differently from what people would normally expect, and I think that has been the key for the success we have had.”

The roles of Ben Manga and Cristiano Giaretta – their job titles don’t really mean much to me. Could you explain how they will work together and how the footballing team will work together? Particularly why Ben was brought in at this point, what was the change you proposed that needed to have that role in? What does he add that wasn’t here before?

GP: “In that search to improve the club, to make the club better. We were all impressed with the job that Ben did at Eintracht Frankfurt. The philosophy he was following was actually very close to the one we are implementing. So I think it was a really good fit. He has a strong knowledge of certain markets and we didn’t have great contacts there.

“We saw that there was a perfect fit because he was not overlapping in our knowledge, but at the same time he was bringing continuity in the philosophy that we have. In that case we wanted to give stronger support, add a stronger asset, inside the technical group. We have more scouts and there is a lot more work in the scouting area. And his presence here at the training ground enabled us to have a greater deal of control of relations with the players.

“We have a Technical Director and a Sporting Director, and the Sporting Director will be more on the individuals and the daily stuff, but the Technical Director intervenes on the philosophy and the continuity. When you are thinking ‘I don’t see the player commitment’, things like that. He’s also the one, together with the Sporting Director, to address those kinds of things. We want people who can help the coach to control those aspects, and make sure we have all those supports. And that’s what he offers us.”

 

Part Four:

Last night's fan forum went into more detail on the roles of the key staff at the training ground, and then also discussed communication - including some very recent communication from Troy Deeney which wasn't well received.

People don’t quite understand what’s happening. There hasn’t been the same level of transparency as there is in other teams. Would it be possible to get some sort of ‘org chart’ so everyone can understand what everyone is doing, across the top table of the club? We’re hearing today there is a philosophy, there is a way of trying to do something, and there’s a way of trying to support the manager. It would be really good to understand who has those particular responsibilities for what. Is Scott Duxbury involved in transfers? In a 2018 interview with the Financial Times he said he was an integral part of the transfer decision making, however he told the Watford Observer in 2022 he wasn’t. Yet a recent interview with Ben Manga suggests Duxbury is involved in transfers. Which one is correct?


SD: “All of them are correct [laughter from the audience]. The club evolves. If you’re saying responsibility for all transfers then it’s obviously Cristiano and Ben, but nobody decides in isolation. The coach will be involved. And then when it comes to the final sign-off, myself and Gino will be involved.

“The day-to-day scouting, the day-to-day recommendations, the negotiations, it’s Ben and Cristiano. This has evolved over time as our scouting and technical department have improved. As chairman I will always have a final overseeing of what’s happening. That’s how we operate: everything in collaboration and no-one in isolation will make a decision, and we work together.

“We’ve no problem with a chart. What’s the best way to get it out there? Our website?”

Andrew – Watford Observer? [thumbs up given]. That’s a yes.

Without communication nobody that’s here can have any empathy with what’s going on. Bringing that transparency, bringing everybody in, helps a huge deal. So there’s a couple of questions around the culture. Scott I want to turn to you on that, because you said about this I remember when we appointed Marco Silva and you also said the same thing about Rob, and you used words akin to ‘a cultural architect’, someone who was going to come in as an ambassador. These things seemed to be important at the time. Having looked at criteria of other managers, is it something that you want the managers to do? I think it’s part of the problem with the transparency. The culture and the ambassadorial elements of the club are very difficult to continue when you have that sort of rotation. Therefore the actual communication an identity, as well as the disparate nature of the game, seems to become like a snow all developing.

SD: “I agree entirely, that’s why we go back to the fact we are looking for that stability. It’s a very simple concept. In English football particularly the face and identity of the club is the coach. If you’re constantly changing the coach, your identity and your DNA appears to be constantly changing.

“We know behind the scenes we’ve got that stability. That’s why we’ve had 11 years if where we are. It’s difficult then to get that communication to the supporters when the coach is continually changing. We try: we do events like this and we’re going to reactive At Your Place to try and do that.

“But the ideal scenario is we have a coach that represents all the values of the club, communicates excellently with the supporters and gives that clear messaging. When you look at Brighton, you’re not looking at Paul Barber, you’re looking at the coach. When you look at Brentford you’re looking at Franke. That’s what we need to achieve. We’re not saying it’s a complete failure what we’ve done, but we know where we need to get to next to solve many problems, including what you said then.”

Coming back to Ben and Cristiano’s roles, what we’re seeing again in one of Andrew’s pieces when he spoke to Ben, one of the things he said – and I appreciate this went through very many layers of interpretation so correct us where we’re wrong here – I believe Ben said that he hoped Gino would learn to trust him when it comes to management appointments. What does trust look like, how much of it is a committee, and how influential are your influencers?

GP: “It comes back to what Scott was saying before. We don’t make decisions in isolation. We actually like to bring in, and exchange, all the information and people. Of course the ones that will be the most influential is the one that knows the manager. So the one that proposed the manager might have more elements to bring to the table than we might have.

“I like to go through this with a logical conclusion, and not an act of faith. You’ve got to trust. I have no problem as long as there is a logical sequence of information. That brings trust, it’s not a blind faith, it’s logical. What you are bringing to the table is something we can support. Otherwise, with something like that, you are really only looking at the results and we would like to see that whatever has been presented to us then is reflected every day on the pitch, and then on the weekend at the games.

“The level of trust is required always. That’s why we question. That’s why we say what information, based on what? What is the piece of information? That is the kind of analysis we do before we make any kind of decision. And I think that’s much stronger.”

You want to see the evidence?

GP: “Yes of course. For any coach who is hard working and is good at certain things, then when we come to the real world, what I am expecting is to see that in place. Then if when the coach arrives here and he doesn’t do what he’s supposed to do, then maybe I question him.”

I just wanted to ask a simple question. An ex-player has said this week the coming and going of managers has made no effect on the players because the manager doesn’t choose the team. Is that true, and if that is true, who chooses the team? Because they’re the people that ought to be getting sacked, not the manager surely?

SD: “The same former player said the speed bumps were removed but it’s true the speed bump is still there. [Laughter around the room].

“There were many things that were said in that article that aren’t true. And that’s it.

“I spoke to the former player the other day, and he said he was misquoted. What he was saying…”

It came out of his mouth.

SD: “Yeah, it came out of his mouth in a podcast so it’s difficult to be misquoted. But what he’s said he was trying to say, but I agree what he said wasn’t saying this, but what he said was that it never affected the players because there was such stability here with the infrastructure and that’s what he meant. But that’s certainly not what was said or what was written.

“It doesn’t bear too much analysis. So I think it was an ill-advised comment.”

I wasn’t going to mention Troy but as he’s come up I think one of the key components that’s been missing – for me anyway, and my friends – is a leader on the pitch, and a leader within the club. Great to have the opportunity to meet you tonight Gino, and Scott again. But Troy was a voice. Troy was something the fans could relate to. We seem to have a bunch of mercenary players if you like. They come and they go, but there’s no connection with the fans. You mentioned that the manager doesn’t help with the signing of players, he identifies the players. I was really underwhelmed by our performance in the January transfer window when Araujo was clearly a world-class player but not suited to Championship football. Martins is similar. Our loan signings throughout the season didn’t really pull up any trees. The recruitment is the main question. A leader and players who are best suited to managers like Slaven and Chris Wilder probably might give you a bit of a hand up there. What are your comments?

SD: “I agree, and what gives a certain degree of optimism for this pre-season, and we were talking about it before, it’s the first time every player who walks in the building wants to be here, and wants to play. And importantly they’ve been identified by the coach as somebody he wants.

“So we all know about Sarr, put him to one side. Everybody else here wants to be here, will be here and wants to play, and we start to get an identity. We’ve got a core of a team, we’ve got a core of good players. We’ve got a core of defence, a core of midfield. People can identify that by being here some time now, the player wants to be here. There are gaps and I agree with you, we need that leader, we need that captain.

“But I think we’re bringing in people like Porteous, who have that leadership, who can be a captain. But we’re not blind to it and we fully agree. But the coach will make that decision, the coach will identify those types of characteristics. It isn’t just about us bringing in a name once we’ve identified the characteristics – we give him a list of players that match those characteristics and he chooses, yes that’s the one. Then we try and get that player.

“So it’s more than characteristics. He is choosing the player once we’ve done the work, well once Ben and Cristiano have done the work. I fully agree that’s the kind of thing we’re missing but like I say we have a core of a team that’s coming here on Monday. He wants a seven-week pre-season to put that work in, so when we see the first game of the season they’ll be running, and running, and running. Commitment will not be questioned. We have a core players here on Monday that all want to be here. It’s been four years, matching the poor period we’ve had, since we’ve had that.

“We’ve had squads of players not training or not wanting to be here. That’s all gone. Monday, everyone wants to work, everybody wants to be here. That’s a good sign.”

You talk about characteristics identified by the manager, and then we go and find a player. What about the mental characteristics? What about the psychological profiling? That seems to be the component part that we’re talking about as missing. What we tend to say is, what a lot of people we talk to say is, there’s a lack of leaders in there. I think that’s what we’ve almost identified when we say about ‘since Troy left’. Is that something Valerien has identified and communicated for us to go and do something about?

SD: “Completely, and it forms part of the profile of the players that we want, and it’s not just technical ability, it is that mental attitude, that ability to be aware. It’s all part of the profile of the certain players he wants. He has a clear identity and a clear formation he wants to play. That makes building the squad from day one very, very, very simple.

“For the first time, I repeat, we’ll have seven weeks with a squad that’s all working for the first game of the season. We’ve not had that for some time.”

 

Duxbury's favourite cheese is primula.

 

Part Five is Mogi Bayat and Finances:

It was always going to be a name that came up at the fans' forum - Mogi Bayat.

There was also lots of discussion around club debt.

You mentioned we’ve got a world-class scouting network. For me and a lot of others we see Mogi Bayat coming in and bringing us these cowardly players that don’t want to be here, throw their toys out of the pram when they’re asked to run. Why is that suddenly going to change? Is he still in the picture? And what made you sell Hasane Kamara to Udinese for £15m and then loan him back? How much trouble are we in for that? And why on Earth would you do that to our club?


GP: “You should put the same question to Tottenham. They come and bought from Udinese, Udogie, for £25m and loaned him back. That’s football.”

But I’m talking to you about our club, not Tottenham.

GP: “It’s actually, if we have an advantage and we can use our clubs to support us, why shouldn’t we use it when, in football, all the clubs that are now related actually do that? It was a brilliant solution because it helped us support the club without losing the technical ability of one of our important players.

“By the way, all of that is very public. So there is no possibility for us to hide, anyway.”

SD: “Let me just give some reality. We were relegated. We had to generate cashflow and finances in order to be sustainable. So we were able to sell, and Kamara wanted to play at the highest level. We were able to sell Kamara that enabled a good transfer fee so we could have the revenues for this club to continue and to compete.

“Because of the situation with Spurs and Udinese, we were then able to keep him for a year. So it’s not ‘how can you do this to our club’. We were able to do some good transfer business and make sure that we’re sustainable and we were able to keep the player for the season. It was a good deal for everybody, but there are consequences when you’re in the EFL. The new TV deal will help but our core business will be player trading.

“In order to be sustainable we’re going to have to sell players. That’s the reality of the EFL, and it’s not that we’re unique or unusual. We’re not the biggest club in the league but we’ve done exceptionally with the commercial revenues, we’ve done exceptionally with the season ticket sales, but there will be an element of core player trading for us to be sustainable.

“That is just part of the core business of this football club. There’s no problem with it. There’s nothing underhand. The EFL have no issue with it. None at all.”

So was there not an investigation announced?

SD: “No. It was the media being extremely provocative. As far as financial fair play, every financial fair play submission is examined. That’s all the EFL were saying. With every club in a related-party transaction, it’ll be examined whether they agree with the valuation or not. That’s it.

“And it has no consequence because of the other trading we’ve done and the other commercial revenue we’ve achieved, whatever value they wish to put on Kamara I’m sure they would agree he’s a top player. It’ll have no impact on our FFP submission. There was zero consequence to the Kamara deal. Zero.”

So in your mind does this fall in line with the 2013 season when a lot of players came over and Ian Holloway got upset? But then they started to close those loopholes. Is it part of exploiting around what the rules are?

SD: “No, it’s not a loophole. Kamara wanted it. Everything we do with Udinese is done at arm’s length and has to be independently verified, independently valued and independently audited. Kamara wanted to go, and wanted to play at the highest level. Fortunately Udinese needed a left back because they’d done the deal with Spurs. It was an arm’s length transaction. He was going, we get the transfer fee, and we move on.

“Spurs said ‘actually, we don’t him now [Udogie] so you can have him back and we’ll take him next season’. Udinese then say they want Kamara to stay. Fantastic. Kamara stays, we’ve done the transfer, everything is completely at arm’s length, completely independently audited. The EFL had zero concern.

“But it was a time where the media wanted to find a problem where there wasn’t a problem. But there’s been no investigation, there’s been no charge, there’s been nothing. Simple.

“FFP submissions are something every single club has to do, and that submission went in a month ago, two months ago. As far as I’m concerned, it’s closed.”

Mr Mogi Bayat – he is under investigation as party of Operation Zero in Belgium, Stades Rennes have talked about what’s going on with that, we seem to be the only English club who seem to be dealing with him since about 2018. What is his connection? Why have we previously been connected with him? And again, just referring to Ben [Manga], he talked a few weeks ago about the difference between agent-based recruiting and scouting-based recruiting, based on the fact that sometimes you need to be sure you’re getting what the team needs rather than what the agent wishes to sell. What’s your position on Mr Mogi Bayat? Obviously we do see him there, he is a contentious figure, we are a small club but we have values. I think we find that one difficult to reconcile. Can you help us do that?

GP: “In general, we know we need to work with agents. Agents have become an important part of our everyday business. We have agents who want to bring players out even if you want to keep them. Of course need to be connected with agents that will help us. We have no particular preference of any agent. We just look for the guy who will bring us at good value. The agent at the end is not the one who is out on the pitch.

“We have more interest in the player than the agent. The agent will make a deal happen based on his strengths, his interests and his ability to influence a player. Mr Mogi is just one of the agents that we use. He has been developing his ability in France and Belgium. He has not been suspended in his ability to work, so I don’t want to get involved in his personal situation. Until someone is proved guilty, I understand….”

He's innocent until proven guilty?

GP: “That’s right. So I think that we have focussed more on does a particular agent – and we’re not agent based – but we do like to establish good contact with certain agents because we know that we have an advantage.

“With some agents we don’t have a good relationship because maybe we don’t share the same philosophy. That’s the kind of environment we are working in. It’s challenging and so you do establish relationships, but it’s not a particular interest in working with one agent. It’s all player based.”

It’s so important we get this communication and transparency, because otherwise we look at things like Vakoun Bayo signing for Charleroi on loan on July 1 for €1.5m and on July 2 us signing him for €5.8m. The managing director I think at Charleroi is Mr Mehdi Bayat, Mogi’s brother. He was formerly I believe the managing director and has operated in those facilities because it was his uncle’s club at one point. All of this without explanation leaves a vacuum that rumour and suspicion can fill. Could you take us through that particular transfer – and I appreciate you had the same route through for Dodi Lukebakio which was an extremely successful, kind of profitable thing for us. But can you help us understand that?

GP: “It is, again, just a player transaction. And we had some successful transactions. We actually missed on a very good one, Victor Osimhen. They had Osimhen and they offered him to us, and we didn’t take him.

“Because we have relationships with certain agents we will be offered certain players. And that’s the way you will see it working. And again our evaluation, other than with the player, if the player is good enough we don’t care who the agent is. We just try to get the player at the best possible conditions. We expect the agent to help us in that. That is where he can help.

“We shouldn’t give too much importance. Why would I put the club money into a deal that I don’t see as beneficial for the club? What interest do I have with any other club being linked to Mr Mogi?

“All the agents are the same. I evaluate them on are they bringing added value to the club or not. Everything else really doesn’t matter.”

What about the difference of the €4.3m from one day to the next?

GP: “We just evaluate the player at the moment we sign him. If there is a value that we consider is right, therefore we do it. Just as you remember before, another deal with Lukebakio. It was quite the opposite way. We sold him for £20m. That’s football.”

SD: “The bottom line is that because of the relationship with an agent means you get a player. They believed Bayo was going to be a top player for them. So the bottom line is Charleroi had an option to buy him and make him their player on a five-year contract. It’s not like buying a car and that’s what it’s worth. He’s their player at that point. He’s scored all the goals and they’ve exercised the option so he’s their player. At that point they could demand €20m, €40m, €50m. He’s their player.”

So they’ve flipped him in property terms?

SD: “Effectively. But without the relationship you wouldn’t have got the player. You wouldn’t have got the player or the ability to sign him. Now the player – it’s down to the technical department if he’s good enough. But you simply wouldn’t have access if it wasn’t for that relationship.

“It’s the same with many, many agents. I wanted the technical department to sign the winger that went to Everton for a million, forget his name, brilliant player . . . Demarai Gray. Everton got Demarai Gray for a million because they had the unique relationship with the agent. It was impossible to get that deal and it’s why he went to Everton.

“This is football and it is all about relationships, and you get players you wouldn’t get if you didn’t have that relationship. Equally we miss out on players, like Gray, because we didn’t have the relationship with the agent.”

GP: “I also think that in this case, the representation really is not correct. Because look backwards to a similar deal, we had on loan at Udinese, Udogie, with an option to buy. After one year playing for us on loan we exercised the option to buy, for a value I think of €2m. The following day we sold him to Tottenham for €25m. How do you explain that? It’s the same as in this case, you got to look at the value of the player at the moment you do the transaction. If someone is smart enough to get a player on loan with an option to buy and then execute the option, and then re-sell the player…well they have done a good job.

“But when you look at the player when they signed him [on loan] one year before what was his valuation? One year before Udinese was able to identify the potential talent and nobody else decided to sign him under those conditions.

“It’s happened more than once before, and that is the business of football.”

You talk about the media creating a story around Kamara, something that in your eyes wasn’t a thing to be discussed or as big was as meant. As a fan, we’re not into the detail of that negotiation, we see the optics in the media and make our own assumptions. Dare I say some of the distrust we feel as fans comes from this silence, there isn’t the transparency. We’ve talked a lot about philosophy and vision. What are we practically going to do to have that better connection with fans or to allow us to build that backing so we don’t end up in this situation again?

SD: “The Kamara thing is a really good point. There are certain things that we can’t discuss and we were genuinely trying to be open and explain, and that openness and explanation has caused the problem. Certain journalists said ‘ooh, he’s gone to Udinese, are the EFL going to investigate that?’

“We would have been best just saying nothing, let the transfer occur, say nothing. There are certain things we can’t talk about, and when we do in a genuine attempt to be open and honest it comes and bites us.

“But to answer, we had the Covid situation which really brought a halt to everybody. I think we need to restart these kinds of meetings, I said we’ll do At Your Place every two months, which I like because you can get around and speak far more informally.

“We’ll always have communication through the website which has to be sanitised. We have the relationship with the Watford Observer where we can be a little more open. And we need to do more of these, and we need to do At Your Place.

“And we need to win some games. Win games and life becomes a lot more pleasant, and people are more prepared to listen. In the 11 years we’ve been here, this is not where we want to be. We want to be back, being successful, playing entertaining football, and we want to be open and we want to communicate.

“It’s an accusation which I think has more weight when things aren’t going well. We’re defensive – but we’re not. I’ve always wanted to be honest and open, I’ve always wanted to do fans forums, I’ve always done the At Your Places. There are certain things we can’t talk about but I’ll restart the forums, I’ll restart the At Your Places and we go from there.”

This is all about starting, or restarting, that validation so that we get to hear, we get some understanding and hopefully we create some empathy in understanding both ways, and hopefully it is two-way communication.

I’m intrigued about the comment you made that all agents are the same. We seem to have funnelled an awful lot of business through Mr Bayat, and it’s been reported that when his UK company was established there was a member of our parent company board that actually set that company up, and retained a financial interest in it for several months afterwards. How is that not a conflict on interests?

GP: “Again I think we got the facts wrong. When Mr Bayat arrived in the UK he used the same company of accountant that we were using as a common service. That is really the only connection. We introduced him because he arrived in the country, we introduced him to our accountant and he started working with them. That was the only connection. We never had any participation or any connection with any property with Mr Mogi, or any company.”

But that accountant did sit at the time on the board of directors, that’s according to Companies House.

SD: “It’s very common for accountants to set up shell companies. He set up the shell company with himself as the director, waiting for the nominations from Bayat as to who will be the directors and owners of the company. When those nominations were given, he then stepped off. It’s quite normal in setting up a shell company. This is what the accountants in companies do, and then they’re replaced and that was that. He had no operating role. As soon as Bayat nominated who was on there, he was replaced. It’s just not where the media were taking it.”

If the dates are unclear on Companies House I’d say he’s not a very good accountant.

SD: “Listen, I’m not going to get involved in what Bayat and a former accountant are doing. All I know is that everybody is happy is that that’s what occurred. There is no issue for Watford Football Club. What Bayat or a former accountant do is of no consequence of this football club.”

You mentioned earlier we are in a good financial position. The most common two questions are around what is the state of the current finances – obvious the most recent set of accounts came out and we had debt of £129m or £128m, to Mr Pozzo and external debt. The question is what is the current state you can share with us now, and also about servicing that debt. You mentioned last year that it was a £50m loan and that was what you needed to worry about. Mr Pozzo wasn’t going to claim back anything until…

GP: “Never.”

Excellent, you heard that, never. That’s clarity and transparency for you.

SD: “The situation is really simple. We have £25m of debt with Macquarie that will be repaid in full in 12 months’ time, and then we are effectively debt free. We only have owner debts, and owner debts is a vehicle for funding the growth and continual development of the football club. It’s quite normal, it’s what most owners do, put working capital into the club. That’s the position.

“The only thing we need to concern ourselves with is Macquarie debt and that’s £25m, repaid in full in 12 months’ time. And then we’re effectively debt free. That’s our position.”

In terms of that we are in the Championship. The last time we dropped from the Premier League to the Championship I think turnover dropped from £120m to £57m. We’ve just concluded a season in the Championship and we’re about to see another one. How is the two-year plan to pay that off? How are you going to work that?

SD: “Everything is cashflow. It’s completely repayable. I don’t want to go into too much detail but the most important thing is, given the contracts of our playing squad have gone down to a level that is entirely sustainable makes the debt entirely repayable, and entirely workable in the 12-month period.

“We’ve had a lot of high earning players who through contracts expiring or through sales are no longer with us. So the actual squad global salary is at a level that is entirely sustainable in the EFL. That’s the work we’ve done over the last four years with changing the composition of the playing squad, and that puts us at a level that we are now entirely sustainable. We have no issues with the repayment of the Macquarie debt.”

Do you know the ratio of wages to turnover?

SD: “I don’t. We’re just working through it today. I don’t want to give a number.”

 

Part Six:

Greater fan involvement with the club, more transparency from the club, and the current feeling that Watford has a 'toxic' fanbase were all issues raised at Thursday's Q&A with Gino Pozzo and Scott Duxbury.

A White Paper has been issued now concerning the Independent Football Regulator. In advance of that the majority of the Premier League clubs and a number of the Championship clubs are setting up Fan Advisory Boards or sort of secondary boards to bring the fans much more into the development and running of the clubs. What plans do you have to follow these other clubs given the regulation is almost certainly going to come into place given the will behind it now?


SD: “What we have to do is meaningful and I tried to do was something similar 12 months ago with the first Supporters’ Committee meeting. Kind of like a board meeting, confidentially, so we can discuss things freely and openly. That wasn’t perceived well, understandably, because it created a feeling that there were those that were in the circle, and those that were out of the circle.

“So in my discussions with my colleagues, most of these are shadow boards that are just paying lip service to the regulations. Nothing is discussed, nothing is meaningful and they’re ticking a box. I would much sooner have events like this, have At Your Place. The problem with the shadow board is who is going to represent the supporters? As we saw with the first Supporters’ Committee meeting that we did.

“I am more than happy to explore but how do you get the correct representation? How do you make it meaningful?”

It isn’t a difficult subject if you look at what Liverpool have done. They’ve strengthened the influence of the fans. If you look at Aston Villa, in fact both of those clubs have got 14 or 15 groups with a representative on the shadow board. Aston Villa have gone one further and they have two representatives that are voted on from each meeting. Both of those clubs including Liverpool have a code of conduct which those members that are on that board have to sign because they understand there are certain areas where private information should not be distributed from that meeting. It’s no different from a district council meeting where you have district councillors talking about private salaries or rates, and the public are not involved in that. You can, if you get the trust between those people and the groups they represent, make it work very effectively and I think you should look at some of the alternatives and examples that are now coming into operation.

SD: “I don’t disagree but what I do disagree with is how do you get correct, adequate representation from such a small shadow board. I think there may be other ways to ensure fans are represented and there is communication, and their requirements are adhered to. I absolutely will look into it. I’m sceptical it gives the correct representation.

“This event has taken some time to try and get that representation. Narrowing it to a small shadow board I’m still sceptical it would give the correct representation that supporters need, but of course I will look into it.”

Part of the learnings of this, including the learnings of organising it, is that what we tried to do – and we haven’t succeeded totally – is to try and engage as wide an amount of the supporter base as possible. I think there would be absolute agreement to try to do that and have elections. I think it’s Stoke or Wolves, one of the two, where you’re elected on a two-year basis, and they rotate half the board every year so you get a continual kind of refreshment. Is there anybody here that would have an objection to voting in fans on a democratically elected basis, to go and represent us for a period of time and on rotation at times you might get called?

Well I do. I was at the QPR game and a very well-known, very outspoken character – the whole environment is toxic at the moment, it’s ridiculous with social media – but there was a fan there that incited violence amongst our own fans. I don’t believe those people represent most of us. I was there with my five-year-old son and I’ve got someone who says they represent our club fighting, jumping three rows over, seriously fighting. And I’m telling you now that person will absolutely be nominated because he’s got a big mouth and a big social media presence. That’s not what this club is about. When I first started supporting this club we used to do open days up here and the kids used to come. We used to have fun days, and players like Troy, players like Etienne were up here and making themselves known. You don’t get any of that anymore. I can’t bring my kids to away games because I don’t know what I’m going into. I’m embarrassed. It’s a disgrace. This is not a family club anymore. At all. It’s toxic. Gino says he’s not on social media. You don’t need an account, you don’t need to make a comment but you perhaps need to read some of it, because some of it is vile. The way we tear each other down is a disgrace. We’re not the biggest fan group in the world but we’re so divisive at the moment. We can’t even agree on basic things. And that’s not nice. So many people are saying that they have season tickets for 20 years but they’re not renewing them. Because we’ve had three or four bad seasons you’re going to disappear? See you later. Don’t renew. Let someone else who is coming through, the next generation, have it. We can get back to what we had 10 years ago, but this club is horrible at the moment. [Applause]

Is that a reason to stop trying to find some way of formalised representation? I don’t know the person you’re talking in reference to. But I can’t believe we haven’t got enough well-meaning people.

It only takes one bad egg though.

The good eggs should outweigh the bad eggs. That’s the problem you’ve got. I was at the QPR game and no-one said a word. I got totally and utterly abused. Our own fans being vile to me. I don’t have to justify why I go to a game.

It doesn’t matter that I’m a female, I’m a football fan the same as you. My football family should not be treating me the way I’ve been treated. And I’m not the only person here. It is toxic. It’s horrible. I want to love my club. I don’t love my club and I know I’m not the only one here that feels like that, and I’m really glad you’ve spoken out. We have got a problem. I’ve tried to report it to the club, other people have tried to report it to the club. Nothing has been done. We don’t have a strong enough supporter liaison officer, I feel really strongly about that. I run a regional supporters club, I’m sorry but I do. We have a brilliant family there of groups already set up. We are really active. We communicate with our members. We need you to communicate with us and we’ll communicate with the members. Use us, we want the club to be good. That’s what you have to see here, everybody wants to love the club. We want to love you, but it’s really hard when you keep us at arms length. Sorry, I feel quite emotional.

I’ve got a lot of sympathy for that as I’m a Women of Watford representative and I have noticed that the hatred among the fanbase has got worse over the last few years. I go to every away game. QPR was the only game I’ve missed this season. Here’s an issue you do need to deal with. But my question actually was another financial one. In the June 22 accounts, there was a large short-term net debt where the creditors had to paid within the year that was £122.7m. That was only partially offset by the debtors which was £40.3m. So from what you’re saying that’s all been satisfied now?

SD: “Emiliano?”

[Microphone taken to Finance Director, Emiliano Russo]

ER: “As Scott said the club is in a really strong financial position, and it’s getting better and better. It’s a very stable club and I wouldn’t be concerned about a snapshot taken at a point in time a year ago, because it’s an outdated picture and we are proving that we are doing well and meeting all our challenges.”

The mention of the family club – I want to say how well we do, in my opinion. We’ve had family days down at Reading where we’ve had bouncy castles, and we’ve been down to the trampoline park. So it is still there, we are still a family club. But having said that I haven’t seen any mention of the family day this year, which we’ve had for a number of years in the dome. I just wondered if we’ll be doing that again this year?

[Family day date confirmed as August 1]

I think what this shows is it doesn’t have to be only but also. Anything we can do to make people feel part of the club. If you are part of the club, the whole club is benefitting. Every single one of these things we do hopefully brings us closer.

 

I thought there was some sort of Supporter liaison officer tbh?

Maybe wrong on that - sound like one for them (and police/security) rather than 2 blokes who probably have no idea what happened or what to do apart from apologise.

Unfortunately a lot of clubs have fans who portray such behaviour at games as discussed at the time be it due to drink/drugs or a sense of frustration and letting emotions run high .

 

The only thing that was said in that regard is Gino has no interest in selling the club, so also has no interest in calling back any money the club owe him. As an owner (as all of them do) he has poured a lot of his own finances into the club over the past eleven years and legally as is entitled to the club paying that back. That does make up a large percentage of our operating debt, but for now I guess we can say we don't owe need to worry unless Gino sells the club - in which case he take those payments back through the sale of the club to the new owners.

 

Part Seven:

Many fans at Thursday's Q&A with Gino Pozzo and Scott Duxbury wanted the pair of them to ask more questions if themselves in an attempt work out what has been going wrong in recent seasons.

I just wondered if you felt there was any need for any introspection? You’ve spoken with conviction and been quite bullish about how the set-up is working. You’re very proud of it, you think it works, you think changing the manager works, you think that the players coming in are working. For me as a supporter it looks like it’s not working. What we’re seeing on the pitch is diminishing returns. The players look disinterested, they look uncoachable. Managers are coming in faster than they ever have done before. We have to keep everything in context because we’ve had a wonderful ride over the last 10 years and seen some brilliant things. But it feels like we’re back where we started when you got here. Just with a bit more debt and a more challenging football environment. What I haven’t heard from you this evening is an acceptance that perhaps you’ve got some stuff wrong, and you need to look inwards at yourselves and your decisions. Are you actually getting it right?


SD: “We’re always introspective and we’re always questioning our decisions. We’re always looking to improve. I have to take a little exception: when we arrived we had a three-sided stadium and we were 12 hours from administration. So we haven’t gone back to where we were.

“Of course in football you’re always having to reset, you’re always having to re-evaluate. It’s not that we’re being bullish, it’s just that we’re saying we need some perspective. The club is in a good financial position, a good infrastructure position. We’re rooted in the community: the work we did during Covid with the hospital. We are a very good, well-respected top Championship club.

“Of course we’re always questioning why are we a top Championship club and not sixth year in the Premier League. And we want to get back. We have to make changes and it’s not just one quick fix. We’re constantly looking at what we need to do differently here. We bought Ben in, because we saw we needed to do something.

“Of course we’ve gone back, our ideal is not to change the coach. Our ideal is to find that perfect fit that we feel will give us that stability. We’re striving for that. Of course we’ve made mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. It’s what part of your success is, you build and react to your failures.

“We’re not sat here arrogantly saying everything is wonderful. We’re just saying we need a little context. I don’t think the past 10 years have been anything short of remarkable, with the development of the club. We’ve had four years where it’s not been.

“I don’t want to be finishing 13th or 14th and Luton being promoted. I don’t want to be stagnating in the EFL. The ambition to do what we’ve previously done burns bright, and of course we’ve got to change things and re-evaluate, do things differently and improve. It’s not about doing things differently, that’s wrong – it’s about improving. It’s about making sure we develop and we grow.

“None of us are sat here on our laurels saying we’re wonderful. On the contrary. We question every single day. It’s one of the advantages of having Gino here every day, we’re able to question, react and change. That will never stop.”

I recognise that, and as supporters we all recognise that. We’ve seen it. We’ve been to Wembley. We’ve seen Vicarage Road. We do recognise that and we appreciate it. But are there signs of change Gino? I heard you say ‘this manager’s the wrong fit’ . . . ‘this manager’s the wrong fit’. If repeated managers can’t get a tune out of the players that the senior team have put together, isn’t there a case of ‘it’s not them, it’s us’? I don’t see any evidence that we’re turning this around. Scott you’re absolutely right, the stadium looks magnificent compared to what it was, we all recognise that, it’s a given, I hope you know that. But we’re in the business of football and what we’re seeing on the pitch – you can see it in the stands, it’s half empty. And obviously that happens when things aren’t going well. I would just like to hear or see some more concrete evidence that we are taking a step back and thinking, actually, is it Chris Wilder’s fault, is it Ivic’s fault or actually is it us?

GP: “That’s our goal at the moment, in the sport’s mind of our club, and so we were addressing how we miss maybe some personality inside the team, in the players and what they represent, we were talking about Troy, and I was mentioning before about how that group came together over a certain cycle, and we end up having most of those personalities not on the pitch. They were on the bench or injured and, yes, you can say that possibly we should have anticipated that. We should have moved before maybe. We had the personalities but they were not on the pitch.

“How do you solve this? Well that’s what we’re doing. We actually now finally assembled a new group that will be fired up to take that responsibility. Some of them have arrived with us in the last summer and the last winter. In football terms, when you have a successful squad, you have to look and think how long will you be able to hold onto them. We might be able to hold onto them for quite a long time – maybe too long.

“Maybe that’s what we have to look at, to have that positive personality that also brings something to the team on the pitch, and there has been a disalignment. Over the last years we have had players on very high wages who unfortunately have contributed in the past but were now not able to contribute much. That was limiting the ability of doing what were supposed to do. Now I think the situation is better in that sense.

“Of course, we need to identify the leader. You have seen some of the players already on the pitch who will be here next year that I think have that. I think they do deserve that credit. I think we all feel the same: we need to have that kind of positive personality, people that want to be at the club and want to progress, and of course the coach is a fundamental element to keep all those other elements together.”

Gino, I like the beard, it suits you very well. I just wanted to ask you – I’m interested when I look at Companies House etc etc and you’re not a director of Watford Football Club or any of the associated entities connected to Watford Football Club. First of all my question is why is that? And my second question is about Mr Mogi again I’m afraid. He seems to be more than an agent to us. I sit very near you and he’s there nearly every single week, and you’re sat with him, and I just wondered why that was, if he’s just an agent?

GP: “The fact that I don’t sit on the board as Chief Operating Officer or Executive Manager, all of them has a certain responsibility and I believe it is important that each person at the club has a clear responsibility. Me being there puts me in that certain position, and who’s going to judge me?

“I prefer in a sense to sit back and leave that responsibility so then you can judge what each one is doing in a more independent way. And then you can appreciate the good things, and make changes when things are not working well. If I were there, who’s going to question me?

“I don’t think it would be fair for me to take that responsibility directly. It would be no advantage for the club. I don’t know if that answers your question, but that’s the way I prefer to be is a professional doing their jobs as a board instead of just having a position of the owner running the club. The fact we established certain philosophies for the club and then we looked for the people that shared them and have the same values is how we like to run the club. Then those values and those ideas have to be developed, otherwise they just stay an idea. And those people are in place.

“We’re looking at the financial position of the club, and without going into too many details the club is in a fantastic position right now. We will be debt-free at the end of this season and the plan to repay the debt is in place, the money is already there. That’s why we had to make sacrifices, we had to sell important players, to improve the financial position of the club. Of course the club in the Premier League was generating some revenues which it is not generating now, so some players have to go but that’s not a problem, we all understand.

“The important thing, looking forward, is we are not carrying over any debt. We are not having any situation unsolved. So the club is really in a fantastic position to look at the next challenge and to move on without any burden on our back.

“Again, Mr Mogi is an agent. I have other agents which I work with that am I close to, in terms of I like people who bring value to the club. And we are able to judge.

“This is our position: I have no interest in working with a particular agent. There is no added value there. But there is added value in the football team to have certain relations. And you have better relations with some than with others. Really there is nothing else but advantage to the club, and that’s all that counts.”

But it’s reported that Mr Mogi walks around here [the training ground] opening drawers and files like he owns the place.

GP: “Really, it’s a bit like the other information that we had an interest in Mr Mogi’s company. It’s false. Life is a lot simpler. If Mr Mogi brings a good deal we are happy to do it. If we don’t like the deal, we don’t do it. So really we are not that concerned because we don’t feel we need any agent in particular, but we feel we do need to work in a football community with agents. I would love not to have to work with agents, because they are a cost to the club, to any club. But you need them. You need to build certain relations in the football community. And Mr Mogi is not different from any other agent.

“If you look this up we have many agents that we work with, both at this club and at Udinese. Then in football over time, we’ve been involved many years, you tend to build some relationships with some agents that you feel will help you doing the deals for the club more than others.

“For example if I have an agent who decides not to accept a contract and decides to take one of our players out, I’m not gonna work with them again because I don’t think this is working. It is a partnership which is the player and the agent working together with us. If someone is working against us then we’re not going to work with that agent much more. Why? Because they may be doing their interests but in this situation they’re not doing mine.

“I will not point a finger as we do not have any particular interest, it’s a matter of the more one agent can bring added value the more deals we will do. For example in South America we end up doing deals with maybe two or three agents because we’ve established a closer relation with them. So when they have a good player they will be the ones often that offer that to you, or when you’re scouting a player you can have a connection there that’s probably gonna work harder to get you a better deal. Other agents might put you in a competition with other clubs, bringing the price up and you don’t want to work with them.

“It comes about establishing relations, and that’s it. There is no exclusivity, there is no interest. Whatever works for the club.”

 

Final Part:

In the final part of the transcript of Thursday's fans' Q&A with Gino Pozzo and Scott Duxbury, subjects covered include more debt and directorship, the need for ongoing communication - and a desire for a pre-season trip somewhere exciting!

Gino, can I pick you up on something you’ve just said. You just said that we’re going to be debt-free. I want to get back to the finances because I think it’s a very, very important part for all of us. At June 2022, football-related debt was £54m, loans against transfer fees receivable was £35m, secured creditors were £72m I believe, and you put in £52m. So when you say debt-free, what does that actually mean? When we get back the June 2023 accounts, what will we be actually expecting? And does that free up liquidity to invest in the first team now as well?


GP: “Well we have been constantly investing in the first team. That’s an ongoing operation. Except for what the club owes to me, which as you were saying before we’re not asking for that money back, every other debt – in this case the only financial debt we have is Macquarie – is going to extinguish in June 2024.

“So you will see at June 2023 that we have around £25m or £30m, and in June 2024 that will be completely gone.”

So that is secured debts?

GP: “Correct.”

And there is no other debt inside Watford or Hornets Investment Ltd, or any of the other…

GP: “Nope, no, no. There is nothing else. That’s the final debt. Everything else is the normal with the suppliers. We have no outstanding debt to anybody. We don’t owe money to anybody. We sold players, we reduced the cost of the playing side. There’s no other secret there.”

So the Joao Pedro money will effectively be looking to correct that debt position?

GP: “It is part of the cash flow so of course we are selling players to generate the cash flow and support the operation. The good news now is we have found a reduction in the salary, and the salary now is constantly going down as the players we had coming down from the Premier League are sold or the contract is expiring.

“We are coming to a lower cost. The club is not generating debt in operation and the sale of players is helping the ones that were generated during Covid.”

I just wanted to ask you a question about personal feelings about the season. Kind of looking inwards, how did you feel when Luton got promoted? Because me personally I felt sick when Dabo missed that penalty at Wembley. How did you feel when Luton got promoted? I don’t know if you heard about it but there were various banners with ‘Pozzo Out’ at Huddersfield and then as you’ve heard today – and I’m very sorry to hear about that – the toxicity amongst fans. Being such a young person and only really following Watford for the last seven years it’s very concerning that this has been the worst year for a lot of people following the club. How does it make you feel when you see things like Luton promoted, potential toxicity among fans, banners wanting you to leave the club? Looking inwards at your personal feelings, does that make you feel annoyed, frustrated, saddened, concerned? How do you feel?

GP: “Of course it’s frustrating, but it’s frustrating for everybody. I think that everybody would feel the same after any loss, and the people that work with me will tell you that you don’t want to talk to me for the next 24 hours, the next 48 hours. But I think that’s a common thing for everybody. And given the level of commitment and work we put into the club, of course it’s more frustrating.

“When I hear some of the fans saying ‘Oh I’ve had enough of this, I don’t want him any more’ . . . I cannot quit. I have to stay and I have to make it work, and I have to make it better. I don’t have that option and I don’t want that option to be fair.

“Of course it comes down that, when you see things like that, yes it is frustrating. But then I’ve been in football long enough and I know that after them moments – and I think you’ve got to live that frustration, it cannot just pass by you like nothing happened – you need to go back and say, ‘ok we need to do better, we need to do more’.

“And even when we had a successful season or a successful game, that’s still what I want to do. What can we do more or what can we do better?

“The results do have a great impact, we also need to rationalise what we want, because sometimes you make a decision under that kind of pressure and maybe that is the wrong state to make that kind of decision. I can’t sleep with my frustration at night and then I start thinking about how to get things better.”

Can I come back to the answer of the directorship. We all know that company law says that the directors set the strategic direction. Earlier in this meeting Gino you said that you set the direction. You said you made the decision not to sell Doucoure. You said on transfers that you and Scott both sign off on final decisions. You said you don’t make decisions in isolation. So why is one of you a director and why is one of you not?

GP: “Sorry if my way of expressing myself is not adequate, is not sufficiently clear. You all know that I participate in the life of the football club. I do express an opinion every time there is something important. But that doesn’t mean that I technically make the decision. Because the decision is made by a group of people that participate in this decision.

“The fact that I’m not a director that doesn’t mean that I can’t express an opinion. And of course when we bought the club what I choose is people who understand how we want the club to be run. So my influence is when I choose someone I make sure to choose someone who will have the same vision about the club, otherwise then it would be a bit silly because I would have a conflict inside the club.

“That is the kind of influence that I exercise.”

Thank you for the two of you to come and do this. Obviously it’s a shame it’s taken the toxicity and the results in the last four years for you to come and do this. Can we get a commitment from you, Gino, that you’ll do this on a more regular basis? Because I think for us, the fans, it’s important to hear you say you’ve got your philosophy, we’ve heard all your commitments and your words. For us now we need to see action. You’ve bought Ben in, you’ve got Giaretta, you’ve got the leadership. For us as fans over the last few years it hasn’t looked like there’s been a strategy. There hasn’t been anything like that. We’ve heard the words, for us now we need to see action. We need to see a change, we need to see improvement. Yes the stadium has improved, we’ve been to the Premier League, we’ve been to the FA Cup Final. Brilliant, but that’s in the past. It doesn’t get us three points in the first game of the season. What does get us three points in the first game of the season is players, strategy, a team that shows commitment, fight and isn’t going to crumble when we’re 2-0 up. Because that’s all we’ve seen for the last four years on average. For us as fans that’s now got to stop, otherwise the toxicity will continue and all the rest of it. And none of us want that. We want the family club, we want all of that back. But, for us – and I speak for myself but I think I can speak for a few people – it’s now on you. It’s now on you lot to turn this around and show us you do have a strategy, and you do have a plan, and things will change. But I’d like to have that commitment from you that we’ll hear from you more often than we have done. Can we get that from you?

GP: “Again, I think the fact that I’m here today, and after 11 years this is the first time we have a forum, I couldn’t choose a better time over the last 11 years. I’ve actually chosen to talk to you when I’ve felt that it was really important. To send a message out of continuity of what we want to do in the sense of the base we have, is a strong base.

“I understand and I agree with you, and that’s what we said before, we don’t live in the past. There is a base to build something even more important.

“I will be here every time it is needed for me to be here. If I come out every single week and sit with you, that will not change anything if we don’t get results on the pitch. I always feel it is important for us to act more than to talk.

“Then of course I do agree with you, we need to establish a contact with the club, a relation with the club. That’s extremely important. One thought that actually made us decided to get involved with this club was the family, this community, the fact that we could talk about football in a certain way, not with violence. That’s very important to us when we got involved.

“And of course we want to keep that. We need to do more in that sense. The important thing is we get the results on the pitch, and then there’s the boring stuff which is why I don’t want to talk too much about what we have done today.

“But it’s important to look at what we have, because what we have will enable us to have better results in the future. And what we have is a very solid base. At least, I know, that doesn’t give you points today but it will give you points tomorrow. There is a sense for us of achievement of what we have done but that’s just set the base for what we want to do next.”

Two very quick questions if I may. If you want to look at a team that had the right attitude on and off the pitch last season it was our magnificent ladies team. Absolutely brilliant. [Applause] Might I also get you to confirm, I hope, that the club will continue to subsidise the coaches for supporters, the cost of those coaches? And talking of coaches when are we going to run one to our pre-season friendly at Hibernian? [Laughter]

SD: “Yes we will continue with the coaches. Pre-season is still up in the air with regard to completion and who we’re playing, including Hibs. So we have to review that.”

One last question and thanks for tonight. Mine was really about pre-season. The last good pre-season away game we had was Sampdoria about 20 years ago. We seem to be getting Stevenage and Boreham Wood every year. As fans, we’re not Brighton and we’re not in Europe but we do like an away day. Now we’re hoping with Ben’s contacts can we get a game at Hamburg or somewhere like that? So we can go on a European tour really.

SD: “All pre-season games are chosen by the coach. The opposition profile, what he wants to achieve with the build-up and where they are with regards to pre-season, and leading up to the first league game of the season he chooses the profile of our fixtures.

“Yeah I’d love, from a commercial perspective, to play Real Madrid or Paris St Germain at home! But the coach is completely in control of who he wants to play. Speak to Ben, speak to Cristiano. They talk to the coach and they decide. The coach decides with them who they want to play. We really don’t get involved in that, it’s down to the profile and the characteristics.

“That’s why with this coach – we usually go to Austria – we’re staying here for the full seven weeks because he wants to work. He wants to work and he wants to get the players in the mindset that this isn’t just a holiday in Austria. It’s seven weeks of work here with all the facilities. As of Monday we’re preparing for the first game of the season, we don’t leave here.”

Apart from a weekend in Edinburgh?

SD: “Possibly.”

The two gentlemen behind you [Luther Blissett and Ian Bolton] are two of the finest exponents of Academy and homegrown players. Can we make sure the Academy gets more opportunities to come through? It was one of the highpoints of, let’s face it, a difficult season when Tobi Adeyemo put that goal away in the 72nd minute of the GT game. Christ Almighty, give them a chance. Let’s see more of them coming through.

SD: “I’ll end then on what most people probably don’t want to hear. I agree it was the highlight, with Morris, with Andrews, with Tobi. What I’m proud of is – it’s a famous quote - I want us to be a Top 30 club. I want us to be the best EFL club we can be.

“We’ll always be an EFL club, that’s who we are. We’re a community-based club. And this constant aspiration, we must be a Premier League club . . . I love the EFL. I love the fact it allows us to develop young players. The Academy has never been stronger.

“Of course I want to win the league and the prize for that is we’ll be in the Premier League. For how long I don’t know. We will always be an EFL club. That’s what I fundamentally believe in.

“And that’s why our expectations, it’s not resetting, it’s not re-evaluating, that’s who are we are. We should be proud of it. We’re one of the best EFL clubs, and it allows us to develop the Academy, it allows us for the players to come through, and it allows us to be always competitive. And maybe we’ll win the prize and get to the Premier League, and maybe we'll stay there for a few years. Maybe we’ll stay there forever.

“But we will always be an EFL club because that’s who we are. We’re a community-based club and we should never forget it and we should always be proud of it. That’s my view.” [Applause]

 

It wasn't brought up because "thermos" flasks were not permitted in the event and everybody who attended it had to sign a agreement not to speak about them, but plastic bottles were valid.