I'm working on something at the moment to hopefully get myself the managers job at a non-league club, one of the changes i'll be wanting to implement is an emphasis on set-pieces. I read in a book (I believe it was this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0670922242) that set-pieces are practically useless due to the conversion rate of them. I decided that i'd go the other way, rather than them being useless due to the conversion rate, why don't clubs put more emphasis on them, working on set-piece routines to increase the conversion rate. So I decided to run the stats: In the Premier League this season there were 4071 corners, with 49 goals scored. This is a conversion rate of 1.2% In the Championship this season there were 6098 corners, with 73 goals scored. This is a conversion rate of 1.19% Scarily close statistics there, 10,000 corners is a decent sample size as well. If clubs put a little bit more emphasis on set-pieces and could raise that % by 5% (to a total of 6%), that would average an extra 12 goals per season. That is ridiculous. That could be the difference between relegation and mid-table. Playoffs or winning the league. I find it baffling more clubs aren't putting resources into it (I know some clubs like Atletico in Spain and Midtjylland in Denmark are doing this with remarkable success), and I imagine we'll see a shift in this in the next few years. Also, I find it funny that despite those corner conversion rates, we roar with passion whenever we get a corner, despite the ridiculously low odds of a goal coming from it, which I am guilty of myself (although I won't be in future!).
What about clubs putting in extra resources to defend corners? Do your stats include corners where a short pass is made, then the ball passed to someone stood on the 18yd line who then whips a cross in which is converted?
The stats show they're already overwhelmingly doing that well already so you wouldn't want to put more in to defence.
I'm unsure, I did think about things like that (or if the ball ricochets around in the box before being banged in). Sadly the stats I looked at don't show that (just "assists from corners") and i'd have to watch all 965 premier league goals scored this season to work it out..
The point I was making, is that could the number be this low due to either (a) defending of corners has improved or (b) the stats only count number of goals scored from someone scoring directly from the cross. Also in a scenario where a corner is put behind for another corner by a defender and a goal is scored from the subsequent corner then that is a conversion rate of 50% but it's still part of a single attack period. All I'm suggesting is that the stats could be skewed to be as low as 1.2% because the parameters used are too stringent. I applaud reids for looking at it in this way. I think that one of the reasons Boothroyd was so successful in 05-06 is because he used pre- and post-match analysis to a greater degree than had been done before. I think at the time he had only just finished his badges/qualifications so was trying out new techniques to our advantage. I think he failed ultimately because (a) other clubs caught up with his use of analysis and (b) because of his early success his head swelled a few sizes.
the stats for non league will probably be higher but they still really go against lumping it into the box. The answer of course is to play to your strengths and/or your enemies weaknesses but a little variation and invention will make your task easier. I used to be a fan of a short corner and smashing the ball in waist high. As the ball pings around it then becomes a lottery as to who will get there first but still the odds must be better than 1.2%.
I would say that slightly over 1 goal from every 100 corners is way too low. Doesn't seem right from what I've seen. Something is missing from those stats.
Indeed, I can't imagine teams putting too much effort into rehearsing defensive set-pieces though. If I were to take a punt, i'd imagine it'd only include an analysis of opponents corners with then positioning/man marking duties assigned.
We had 254 corners this season. I highly doubt we scored more than 3 or 4 tbh. Higher than 1.2% though.
I saw this article a while ago. It gives a bit more detail on the top teams "corner scoring" teams in the prem. Chelsea score a goal from every 16.5 corners, apparently. http://talksport.com/football/surprising-stats-pl-teams-most-likely-score-corners-150127133651?p=10
Does it include goals that come as a result of a corner? I can think of quite a few occasions we scored from the 3/4 stage from a corner - like Cathcart at Birmingham but that wasn't directly from the corner.
As I said above, not entirely sure, would need to watch all the goals to find out. Actually, the stats i'm looking at said we had 3 assists from corners this season. I'll watch WatfordTalks compilation of our goals this season and i'll be able to work it out.
Pozzo-era Watford certainly didn't put much emphasis on defending set-pieces until Joker turned up. The number of times Angella, Ek and especially Neuton lost their men in the box ....
In fact this article is pretty conclusive, it says Chelsea had scored from 8 corners (up to 27th January). Stats i'm looking at say Chelsea had 6 assists from corners. So they must be in including from corner situations rather than direct corners that my stats suggest.
There will be teams that never score from corners, some may hardly ever lump it in. These will skew the average figures considerably.
Sounds like that's where there will be an underestimation. Corner and direct header counts. Corner to edge of 18 yd box and smashed in counts. Corner to near post, flicked on to far post and headed in (Iggy at Forest) doesn't count?? Any worked short corner, 'ricocheting about' or 'second phase' doesn't count. Edit; Your Chelsea stat does suggest otherwise though. Maybe a worked short corner and an Iggy at Forest type do count. Suggested possible short-cut for you. If you could identify the specific goals that counted for Chelsea (particularly where the distinction between the 6 and 8 lies), and maybe for other clubs too, then you just have to look at those goals to work out what counts and what doesn't without having to look at everything. Can you get that information in advance without looking at everything? From whoever worked it out in the first place maybe. Or, if you can get to speak to them then simply ask them what their methodology is?
you're not asking to increase it by 5% but rather by 500%. so although practice is good, i think the idea that it can make you 5 times more effective than you were before is perhaps a little fanciful. you'd also have to figure out which training you'd cut back on to compensate for time (athough i'm not necessarily saying you would need to do five times the amount of training on this to get five times the return, you'd still assume it would be a substantial number) .
Agree ... there's much more to be gained in optimising the transition of play, in developing space in key areas and in creating an extra man .... find yourself a winger or midfielder that can consistently get past two defenders at a time.
That's no secret though, and teams often practice such maneuvers. Set pieces ARE under-utilized. I mentioned earlier Midtjylland in Denmark (Brentford will be adopting their methods in the forthcoming season), they've put special emphasis on set-pieces. I'll try to find the article and it was fascinating. I believe they've scored the most set-pieces in Europe, including scoring 4 set-pieces in 2 different games this season (helping them win the league for the first time in their history)
i'm not saying it's not possible, because in football anything is. but if you want to increase the efficacy of something by 500% then you'll probably need a very detailed, coherent and possibly radically different approach before you start. practising the same things but just doing it more (or with subtle changes) wouldn't cut it. a lateral interpretation could be that attacking opportunities are completely wasted when you allow yourself to accept corners. as such it might be a more effective use of training time (and playing time) working out the best ways to keep the ball in play so that corners are avoided in the first place.
Just watched that video from WatfordTalk with all our goals. Goals resulting from corners: 7 Free kicks : 7 Penalties: 6 (May not be 100% accurate) 20 goals as a result of set pieces is pretty good, and to score from 7 corners isn't bad either. I think there's too many other factors in play to help increase the amount of goals scored from corners and set pieces, especially at Premiership and Championship level. Throw Midgetland into a better league and they'd score a lot less from set pieces.
About 7.5% of total goals for the season, pretty decent and probably one of the higher scoring percentages in the English leagues i'd of thought. You're looking at around 20% of our goals being a result of free kicks and corners (if you include the free kick or corner going in and bouncing around a bit, or a flick on, quick pass into space from a free kick in a dangerous position etc.)
id like to see some invention, is lifting a player up for a near post flick permitted? try putting all players outside the box before a short corner when they all run in. or all players on the keeper before 4 (randomly) dart out and back again. All you ever get is a jostle and a run to one of two places. Jay demerit scored in the play off final, he said he was supposed to make the near post but decided to attack the space at the back. Malky was at the back post and Demerit almost took it off him but the goal arose from something outside the convention.
No surpise re: FK conversion rate. We have a number of good FK takers, including some we don't even utilise (Layún and Watson) on top of Abdi and Tozser. On a side note in FIFA 15, Vydra scored a 35 Yrd into bottom corner. Why not use him instead?
Been tried before, unsporting behaviour I think. and obstructing the keeper usually gets noticed in the PL (there are more officials).
I thought I'd share for the curious. On the 29th April 2012 I volunteered at a charity event at The Den. The day after the season had ended, Millwall played at home the previous day (drawing 2-2 with Blackpool). While setting up the changing rooms for the players we noticed that Kenny Jackett's tactics were still pinned to the wall these were entirely focussed on set pieces, naturally I took photos: The pitch (can't believe we were allowed to play it, it looked ruined by the end of the day)
Found the fascinating article about Midtjylland: https://decorrespondent.nl/2607/How...is-Danish-football-club/230219386155-d2948861 I also believe that in 4 seperate games this season, they scored 3 set-pieces in each game. Pretty incredible.
