I still stand by my dismissal of the EPPP. Would Sean Murray have benefitted from being poached by Man City if the EPPP had been imposed back then? I doubt he'd even be on the fringes of the first team now whereas at Watford he's playing regularly and this experience is absolutely vital to his development. I don't think the aim of the EPPP is to make smaller clubs close their academies. I thought the whole idea was for Premier League clubs to have a better pool of younger players to develop. Also would teams like Southampton be where they are now if it wasn't for selling their younger players like Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain for £millions? Under the EPPP they wouldn't have got anywhere near as much. Oh well, rant over. This elitism **** goes against every fibre of my being. Anyway, if the Pozzos have a 2 year plan to get Watford into the Premiershyte then perhaps a re-grading will occur if and when this happens.
One other point no one seems to have made (or at least I cant see it..) is, that all these kids will get trained at the best clubs….only a very small fraction will make it. Then at 21 the ones that do get released and clubs like Watford can pick them up for nothing (or at least that is how I read it). So if we are clever we can also make it work for us.
Yes I alluded to it with the Sean Murray bit. The alternative to an academy is a good scouting network ( a la Pozzo's). Burnley (I think) did away with their academy and re-invested that cash into the First Team (or scouting for it) because the EPPP was too expensive.
http://www.englandfootballblog.com/2012/08/14/watfords-academy-destroyed-by-foreign-ownership/ via @englandyouth
They would have done because those players were on professional contracts when they were sold. If Arsenal wanted to nick them on the cheap they could have done much earlier, but of course they didn't know who they were until they became first team professionals. EPPP compensation only applies if the players are transfered before signing Pro Forms.
England U16 Training Camp Update http://t.co/yOg5JRRl about 4 hours ago gutted to see this happen @nlevett - #Watford's self-downgrade from Cat 1 > Cat 3. eek. || http://t.co/mFHDnJdd about 6 hours ago @ChrisProSkills @Boab10 Everton? they reportedly have 1st refusal after Rodwell deal. would be an idea spot for him. about 6 hours ago Watford’s Academy Destroyed By Foreign Ownership August 14, 2012 England U16 Training Camp Update August 12, 2012 England’s Next Big Striking Talent? August 3, 2012 As the Pozzo family waltzed into Watford shaking hands and holding babies, much like any political candidate, they brought with them promises of fortune and hope for a return to Premier League football. On paper, you’ll find the majority of Watford fans would welcome this. Yet, at what cost? Gianpaolo Pozzo made his money in the power tool industry. He’s also established himself as somewhat of a wheeler dealer in the Italian marketplace. The Pozzo ownership of Udinese and Granada revolves around a massive scouting network that pick-pockets talent from abroad, plays them, and then sells them on for a profit. Think of it as someone who doesn’t own a vineyard, buys their grapes from elsewhere, and then bottles up the wine and sells it for more. Watford’s Harefield Academy, pre-Pozzo, was one of the premier academy setups in all of Europe. Roughly four years ago Watford took the landmark effort of establishing a brand new way to go about running a football academy in England. After an FA review found out since the Academy system began only 120 English players had made their Premier League debuts Watford and the Harefield Academy sought to change that. Watch… In March of this year, Watford welcomed their 50th graduate to make a first team debut. That’s 50 homegrown, locally based players through to the first team since 1998 (including Ashley Young, Marvin Sordell). On 14 August, 2012 news hit the web that Watford will be downgrading their academy status from Category 1 (as part of the EPPP) to Category 3! What doesn’t make sense is Watford‘s pre-existing relationship with Harefield (as well as their already-approved-Category 1 status) means they were essentially already set up for success. The on-site accommodation and education was already there. The self-appointed downgrading from Category 1 to Category 3 also means that Watford can no longer sign players until the age of 12. Additionally, due to Watford‘s choice to make this move, the club are no longer part of the U21 league. That means complete removal. Instead, they will compete only against other Category 3 clubs in the U18 division. That’s the likes of Aldershot and Gillingham instead of Arsenal and Manchester United. Curious minds have to wonder how much cost savings/money played into it. While a Category 3 academy will cost just £315,000 to run each year, compared to the £2.5m for a Category 1 setup, the benefits surely outweigh the costs. Higher competition at U18 and U21 level. A better parachute payment from the league in order to support that setup. Ability to sign players at a younger age. No 90-minute rule constraints. More coaching hours. Bigger, better local talent pool. Furthermore, take Tony Carr of West Ham: “A boy coming into the EPPP system at the age of nine or ten would have more than doubled their coaching hours by the time they are assessed at the age of 16, compared to the current system” Instead, Watford will become home to Udinese and Granada exports. A simple springboard for Pozzo talent from other clubs. No more local English footballers coming through at the levels we’ve been privileged enough to witness. As already seen this summer, a whopping six players have been signed up on season long loans from the aforementioned clubs. Even out of the 35 squad members listed as part of Watford FC, an incredible 16 of them were brought through the Watford Academy setup. Expect that to change. Upon their takeover, the Pozzo family publicly stated the Watford academy will continue to be “very important” to Watford’s future progress. This obviously is not the case. One has to assume that greater credence must have been given to the emphatic ‘but’ that followed “…but of course we want to make the most of our world-class scouting network, which has many years of football experience behind it.” While Udinese will reap the benefits of the cream of the crop, Watford will start to onboard a number of “promising youngsters and fringe players” from the Pozzo network of clubs, further diluting the English talent pool good enough to stake their own claim. While some fans may love to see their club start to “attract” talent from abroad and play a different brand of football, others are thrilled by local talent being nurtured and brought in from the surrounding community. For a club to have one of the most revered academy setups in all Europe in the past two years build itself on the foundation of bringing English talent through its ranks – to see it cast asunder by foreign ownership at the drop of a hat, seemingly all in the name of a quick dollar, is incredibly hard to stomach. Additional Links: Pozzo Interview Watford Observer BBC Article on Academy Graduates
That article is wrong. The club hadn't been assessed yet to decide their category status and Nick Cox says on the official site we can still sign players from the age of 9 upwards even as a Cat 3 academy.
So much drivel in general about this topic. Can someone bottom-line it all for us? The truth is in here. #pozzofiles
Happy to try, this is my summary: The EPPP is a bunch of bull5hit designed with the sole purpose of giving top premiership teams cheap access to the best young English players. Its an exclusive club costing £2.5 pa. There is little benefit to Watford to join now. That may change in the future. Harefield is a great academy and will continue to function perfectly well as it has always done. Watford are no longer a selling club and the pozzo network provides access to a stockpile of free young talent, so the academy is a bit less important than it was. The was a big panic. The world didn't end. The sky never fell in.
The point is that the premiership clubs can afford to pay the compensation anyway the scheme just means that they have to pay less. A lot of the current England team have come from Football League academies. So the argument that being at a bigger club means more chance of success is rubbish.
I'd be interested to know what level of youth development funding the Premier League actually contributes to each league club as the withdrawl of this funding was one of the sticks used to beat the league clubs into line. If the contribution is into the millions, wouldn't this help offset the cost of upgrading category levels, and if way below this, why did the league clubs agree to it in the first place? I really hope this development doesn't prove to be a massive negative to the club, as I can only imagine the draw that clubs like Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea are to young impressionable lads, especially with the opportunity to test yourself against the best.
Apparently the youth development fund paid by the Premier league is worth £5.4M per club with an academy across 4 years. So a little over £1m per year no matter if you're a Championship club with a Cat 1, Cat 2 or Cat 3 academy. I don't know if Cat 4 clubs gets that payment as well. So it would go nowhere near to paying for the improvements or investment needed for Cat 1or Cat 2 status.
No I don't think that's correct. The higher your academy status, the more funding you receive per year, and the more other clubs have to pay to sign your youngsters. Welcome to the forum by the way!
From reading Nick Cox's piece in the article in the wobby, it seems that having to play in the u21 league if you were Cat 1 or Cat 2 was a major factor in the opt out. Clearly it is felt, or at least the PR line says, that the development of the players is best served by first team experience at that age. I can see the logic in that. My main concern by going the cat 3 route is that the best young players are pinched before they get to that age, but I guess the counter argument is that you offer the player earlier chance of 1st team football versus playing more age group football into your early 20's and still be light years from a 1st team place? Obviously the financial investment was mentioned too which I would have thought was the deciding factor. On that point, if you look at the cost of running Harefield and being Cat 1, I'm not sure that stacks up either. We would have to be selling a Mariappa every year or bringing 2-3 quality players into the 1st team each season just to make it worth considering. Have the club looked at the EPPP and decided it simply doesn't work for a club of our income and so they effectively wish to continue to operate the academy as it has been until now? More questions than answers at this stage, time will tell how it pans out.
No they're not pinched before that age as Cat 3 acadamies have exactly the same access to U11 players as Cat 1 and Cat 2 acadamies do where they have to reside within 60 minutes of the club. Only Cat 1 have different rules for ages 12-16 next season where they can sign anyone from the country (this season it's only 15-16 year olds that they can sign nationally) Cat 2 and Cat 3 are restricted to within 90 minutes (which is what the rule in the old system is)
We are obliged to allow strange men from Category One clubs to look at any young boy of their fancy with 48 hours notice. Surely there are certain ways, means or laws we can use to obstruct that process? In response to the previous post, I'm pretty sure Category Three clubs have a 60 minute catchment area. Of course, provided we say that a boy within the previous 90 minute zone is going to school by helicopter, there is no issue.
Here's an idea. Why not float the academy off as a separate business to WFC. Players can be bought sold recruited to anyone from anywhere outside of these stupid rules. Obviously an advantageous £1 fee can be arranged for any scholars being sold to Pozzo clubs. The Pozzos can fund the academy as a charitable donation through wages they pay themselves as members of the board of WFC. That would make us Cat 0. Outside of the terms of the agreement but technically possible?
According to the Watford Observer article today once we're Cat 3 we have to keep that status for three years. That rules out the idea of a quick promotion and ramping up of the academy say next season.
I've seen two years elsewhere in other media sources. It's hard to know what the truth is. Either way, 3 years is nothing. Even if we assume we get prompted to the Premiership this season (which is hardly easy to achieve), the following season will be a case of battling to stay up. If we managed that, the third year would be spent trying to consolidate as a Premier League team. During this time, we'd also be wanting to improve the stadium and get a 4 sided ground, to leverage Premier League attendances. It would be hard to justify investing from 2-6 million extra on the academy during this period, considering what the goal is. I'm sure we'll want to reevaluate eventually, but I'd be shocked if it happened immediately after promotion, even if the rules allowed for it.
Am I right in thinking that even if we were cat 1, we could still have our best players pinched by the "big" clubs, they would just need to pay more compensation? Because if you ask me the compensation is peanuts in both cat 1 and cat 3.
Now that I like , it would be legal and the prem**** bullyboys could squeal long and hard Meister fire of an email to pozzos right away , (dont bother with Nani and duxbury ,I dont trust those two).
Without wanting to associate myself with Ken Bates, maybe we should put up some electric fences to keep the wingless vultures out?
Add a couple of machine gun nests at good vantage points , maybe we need do build a moat and drawbridge around the academy .
I know this may be slightly of topic from EPPP, but I'm not sure the suggestion that the scouting network and the academy are either/or. From what has been previously said in this thread the running of Harefield will remain roughly the same (I don't know this for fact i'm taking this from things that have already been said). If this is the case is there any reason, other than immigration laws, why we cant use the scouting network to find 12 year olds to put through Harefield.
Dont like the language the wobby is using ,in talks with harefield , scrapping our partnership , etc all I can say is if they do this ,I hope they are ready for the backlash!
