A time for reflection

Hello everyone, I hope you are all well and skiving off work/school etc

I havent posted for a while... not because I couldnt be assed or i havent been on here, Ive simply been a little busy with other things. Anyway this is a forum and rather than write silly comments and argue with the bear, i thought I'd write something serious for once.

Sat reading the wobby articles this morning on travner and Malkay, i noticed there were more responses than usual in the comments section which mainly centred around those pro fordwat / homer and those pro russo. Mixed in with this I also noticed a fair few arguing over whether malkay was any good and it got me thinking... (careful James)

How big is the split between us supporters and it is becoming a real problem?
Sure fans at all clubs have their dissagreements but collectively, we've been rowing for far far far too long now and there seems no sign of either side relenting whatsoever. What's troubling me more though is that, with the future unclear, how much damage is this actually doing? Are people falling out of love with the club? Personally, I think they are. Why do I say this?

Because... for the first time in 25 years of supporting the club, I am noticing small changes in my feelings. For example, with myself it's generally fairly difficult for me to get to a game due to kids and work commitments and usually, after a prolonged period.. the frustration of not getting to a game gets the better of me and I cancel everything and purchase a ticket. Worrying, more recently, I havent felt this frustration and I am asking myself why this is. Am I on my own? Surely my club needs me more than any other time? Are my feelings directly related to all the goings on off the field?

What I am asking is simple.. does anyone else feel this way?

If you look at Watford Football Club from an unbiased point of view what do you see? It's not pretty that's for sure. There are very little positives to take away... with so many changes in recent years in terms of players, management and board, can you possibly see any form of stability in the near future? I can't. How much longer can this go on for before fans start walking away? I think it's fair to say that the "hardcore" element, those that attend the away games week in week out will always be there. But what about those that get to a point where they cant be assed any more? Some will say we're better off without them but are we? Football clubs need all the fans they can get.. that's what keeps them going, financially which is surely THE most important thing.

I've started to ramble so I'll stop here but I'm sure you all get my point... what are all your thoughts? Are any of you getting tired of the constant doom and gloom? Who's staying positive? Is there anyone on here that can actually say they've seen themselves supporting the club MORE recently due to whats been going on? Is the split between the fans causing serious long term damage?

Seriously, how do you all feel?

 

Good post....

My feelings towards WFC have soured now for some time...i dont like the way we didnt learn from nearly going bust before , if someone was to shake a bucket in my face at a game asking for money , i cnat promise i wouldnt punch them in the face...

I dont like some of the characters wearing the golden yellow , i feel disconnected from the club nowadays , and one of those reasons is because of the complete ******S being employed as either `response teams` or the like ,. rent a mob scumbags and nothing more , We must have amongst the softest support and yet we have hese arsehols wandering around as if they are supervising a leeds game , or some nightclub...

I dont like the fact that some of the chaps at the fron get excited and i can see the characters employed by the club , actaully ready to run down to apprehend them from standing , everyone stands at intervals dont they ?

Saying all that , i do like the chiltern ale

 

Wow! Strong stuff (original post - reply appeared while I was typing!) there but I do sort of agree with most of it!

As my handle suggests I live in Oxfordshire so its a 60 mile trip each way to get to games. As my daughter plays Saturday morning football and I manage her team the logistics are against me being able to get to the Vic as often as I'd like. And that's before you think of the cost once you add fuel, parking, programme, food etc (I know programme and bought food are optional extras).
I was brought up going to Watford as my local team having bullied my dad into taking me although he was a (non-practising!) Chelsea fan (early 80's so the Bridge wasn't a nice place to go!). I have adopted the same principle and take my daughter to Oxford United most weeks. If there's a big game or if the 2 teams played each other in the cup (not this year obviously!) there is no doubt who my first team would be - the 'Orns.
In the past I would go to Oxford if they were at home but on away weeks I'd try to get to the Vic a few times a season if daughter's matches worked out ok.
In the current climate I'd often be more tempted to look at the Oxford away option.
It just feels depressing being at a building site with no sign of work going on and infighting between factions of fans. If I go to a Watford game now it's more likely to be away as the atmosphere feels better and more united!
Home gates don't seem too bad considering economic climate and recent history so maybe i'm an exception?

 

Very good post KJ which will provoke much thought. The majority of us trade emotionally on the past in our love of the club and gradually that is being eroded. Like many it's a major haul for me to get to games quite apart from pressures at home to attend to more 'important' matters and on occasion i've had second thoughts. Fortunately once i take my seat that goes. Recently as the game kicked off i did actually think to myself "how could i not be here?" and i reminded myself that i really love live football. Even crap live football.

I think that fairly or not fairly a lot rests on GT's shoulders. He doesn't want or need it but if he was to decide 'I've had enough' the repercussions would be immense.

 

Another good post.....i forgot to mention , if finances allowed , i would go to al the away games instead....stick their ST up their backsides...

 

That's a very good point.

 

Ive been supporting this club for over 40 years and for the first time ever Im considering not renewing my season ticket for next term.

Over the seasons we have only ever been promoted or relegated based on the actions of the players on the pitch and that in my mind is how it should be.
Ive stood and sat, cheered and cried at losses and wins but Ive always come back because next Saturday we could escape relegation or gain promotion.
But not any longer so it seems. Were running a tight line between the players gaining points on the pitch and the faceless suits losing them in the boardroom and my enthusiasm for a team that I have worshipped for four decades is ebbing closer and closer to my own winding up order.
I cant raise the enthusiasm to see the lads on the pitch go the extra mile only to see the suits drag us into the gutter.Ok we have escaped administration by the scruff of our necks this time but just how far around the corner is next time?

 

I see your POV but IMO we now have cleared the debts and from the summer will have got our costs under control. We have no "ego`s" on the board ( Simpson/Ashton/Russo) but have trustworthy lovers of WFC.

Our effective owner ( Ashcroft) is happy to sell up if we find the right people but meanwhile will support us.

Our gates have held up and we have a young trustworthy manager and are playing mostly good stuff.

We all get fed up especially as family/job/cash impacts on football but overall I think that we are in a great position compared to any time in the last 2 + years.

I look at W O site sometimes but as you say, people there especially have pro/anti bias that drives them to ignore facts or take extreme positions.

I know that clarity & depth of thought are less common than I would like, but it takes a brilliantly bizarre logic to see the eviction of either of the last 2 regimes as anything but good, and our current ownership/finance situation as anything but the best possible short/medium term outcome available, and far better than many clubs of our size currently enjoy.

PS, Chiltern Ale AND Hot Ham rolls...............MMMMM

 

No, I don't get too down about Watford, there are far more important things to worry about every day. I will renew next season, still do as many away days as I can get away with, and continue to support the club. I like a chat and a moan along with everyone else regarding Watford, but then I view Watford as a part of my life, just not the most imortant part.

The issue in my mind is with football in general, that's what gets me thinking. Players and agents rule the roost now, (IE. Williamson), and that isn't right. The Premiership is the problem.

 

This is along my lines of thinking , when you have kids and other commitments its hard to take it too seriously...

 

KingJames - interesting post and I understand your feelings. It's been a rollercoaster ride supporting WFC over the years as it has been for fans of most clubs outside the Premiership. Having said that Virgin's post above is the one to think about. Positive points are made and while things are never perfect I think the club has a lot going for it so long as in the summer sensible decisions are made re the finances and the playing staff.

I shall continue to have a season ticket and go to matches. It must be so dull to support clubs like Chelsea, Manchester United etc.

 

Spot on. I used to go to every home game and a fair amount of aways and nothing would interfere with that. Now with 2 kids, I've been to 3 home and 3 away so far this season and, whilst I'd like to go more, I've not been too bothered.

I think there are divisions, but no more than in previous years of decline - the mid 90's and the post-Vialli era. We're in quite a sorry state, but to me it's more about meeting up with my mates for a beer, a sing song and watching a game. I am enjoying it more than when we had a full squad on the gravy trains after we came down from the prem. We're pretty weak, but also pretty honest.

I'll be ****ed if I'm going to put any money into a bucket. I did that once and I have better things to spend it on.

 

yeah, good stuff KJ....

I think it's natural for most people's rabid enthusiasm to wax & wane somewhat during times of off pitch strife and boardroom upheaval. Nothing unatural in that...

Kids, family, work & many other things pull people in different directions (and rightly so), but the old fire always burns...

It's a 120 mile round trip for me to go to a home game and as such with other commitments I cannot commit to a season ticket, but I plug away down to WD18 when I can, I still get a bag of chips at FryDays, I still buy a prgramme at the Mainwood... I get off to a few away games every season when I can too. You know what I'm getting at I'm sure....

I wouldn't worry unduly mate, support is about more than just feverish barking from the stands. Be it WD18, away days, Soccer Saturday, 5 Live or over the web from where the heck ever, we're all still fans... (despite what some would say)

Bottom line is, between Rodgers, Russo, Tommy, Aidy et al, we've all been through a lot in a short time.

Good post mate, very good....

 

I think that we have had an ongoing problem for quite a few years now. The class of '84 - or those born in the 60's and 70's who were drawn to Watford because it was a nice local club having sucsess, have grown up.

Over the last 15 years we have seen the average age of the crowds increase and very little has been done in brining in a younger supporter base. Many go off and follow Arsenal or Chelsea as we know.

For those of us born in the 60's and convert's in the 70's and 80's are all grown up now. As both Admin and King James say, football is no longer the be all and end all as it use to be. Kids, jobs, mortgage's, wifes and everything else has slowley taken over.

I still love the club, I still love going to games and I still have as much passion, but if I have to miss a game because of one of my children are doing something more important then so be it. That wouldn't ahve happened 15 years ago.

There is also a realisum that we are Little Old Watford and we aren't going to progress as we did before. A good cup run, the play offs every 5 or 6 years is realistically all we get excited about. I suppose thats where it waines, knowing that you are an also ran even before a ball is kicked in anger.

 

How was we all introduced to watford ? My 2 boys first ever game was rewarded with HH 2 goals on his return this season, and the last time i saw that smile was my reflection in the 'football cafe' down vicarage road some 25 years ago as we came away from a great game at the vic.

Im hoping that watford bring lots more highs than lows for my 2 boys, but if they have the same, they will probably still be supporting watford for at least 25 years to come.

 

Good post.

I live in nottingham and cannot get the Vic every week, but I do travel to around half the away matches. This has stayed pretty much the same for years. In all, I have been supporting the Club for well over 40 years and expect to for another 40 years - god help me. But I can totally understand the diminishing sense of belonging that some fans may have about the Club - for a number of reasons:

- The squads are so much larger now with a more rapid turnover. I used to think of our squad being about 18 players who I seemed to think of as (almost) my family or friends. For 30 years I knew a number of the squads personally and two of my family members have played for the Club.
- The influx of players from further afield like the US, Hungary etc. This gives the impression of a "less than local" team.
- The high levels of communication, via the web and sites like this one. This makes us more questioning and more open to disatisfaction with, for example, the running of the club.
- The ability to look at (and become interested) in the affairs of other Clubs.
- The focus on money, wages, etc. I can't remember ever being the slightest bit concerned over how much Stewart Scullion earned, Tony Curry or even John Barnes. It was really of no interest. I, perhaps naively, was just happy to accept that these players were just happy to play for Watford. The thought of current Watford players earning in one week what the average wage earner earns in about 3 months seems wrong, when many are not even playing! Terry, Rooney on about the same in a week as the PM earns in about 9 months. What is that about? These players are earning money for playing football, something that I dreamt about when I was a youngster.
- The weekly updates in the WO from Oliver Philips was my highlight of the week (apart from the match). It was our main source of info and I think, quite sanitised, as to the daily running of the Club and finances. But it was cosy, homely and local.
- The general rise from the basement of the league to 2nd place in 1st Division under GT. This can never be repeated and inevitably anything that follows, to me, is a bit of an anticlimax.

If I cannot attend a match personally. I too do not become so frustrated as I may have done in the past, but I think this is because I can still see the goals, on TV or the internet. I can read maybe 20 reports on the match and various views of the match on forums like this.

I think that similar discussions may well be occurring at other Clubs. There are other issues affecting other Clubs fanbases. For example, at Manchester United, for example, it is becoming increasingly difficult for a normal local fan to actually see their team play.

King James, just one point. Those that are now "anti" Russo (like me) are not necessarily pro Simpson, like you implied.

 

Best thread for quite a while and whilst I can associate with the 'falling out of love' feelings, I think mine is directed more at football as a whole rather than just WFC. A few years back when there was an England international on, me and a group of probbaly 10/12 mates would decide what time we were meeting at our local. There was no question about whether we would watch it or not. Now, none of us watch the games together. Even if I am sitting at home whilst the game is on I still wont definitely watch it. The same as the Sunday afternoon game would always be watched in my house, before going off for my normal Sunday night kickabout with mates. Now I don't bother as a rule. In fact the only football I bother to sit down and watch is when I'm watching WFC. Football bores me, the excitement simply isn't there anymore as it is all dominated by money, rather than watch two teams go head to head and kick lumps out of eachother for 90 minutes and play out a 4-3.

Edit: Thinking about it now, I think I actually get more enjoyment from doing the legends site than I do going to games. Only one game springs to mind this season that I have really enjoy - Peterborough away. Games like that are few and far between now.

 

Great Thread,

I totally agree as good or bad I always used to make the effort to get to as many games as possible but now I really can't be bothered with the 500 mile round trip. Some of the excitment has gone & certainly with the way club has been run over the past few years I feel more & more like keeping a distance.

 

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the thing that to me is most demotivating. The object of League football is to win whatever league you're in, or failimg that, to get promoted to the next level. But nowadays that just means a season, or a few seasons, of getting stuffed most weeks until you come back down again, and maybe drop lower still if your finances are really screwed. The most we could ever hope for is to get high enough in the Prem to qualify for the Europa League, so that we can play our reserves in Europe so as not to jeopardise Prem survival for another year. So what's the point?

We've had good teams at Watford, we've had bad teams, good and bad managers, good and bad boards, but whatever we've got now will change in a couple of years, so the things that other people have posted about really don't bother me.

My present view is that Malky has got Watford playing pretty entertaining football, and I'm happy going along to all home matches and a few aways that I can conveniently get to. And despite my worries about the way professional football is structured, I do want us to win matches and go up, even though my expectations for what we get when we arrive in the Promised Land are zero.

Personally, I'm delighted about the crisis in football finances. If TV and sponsorship money drifts away from football, if the banks call in the big clubs' enormous debts, and if there's an end to parasite clubs like Portsmouth who've spent a fortune on wages but have done nothing to their ground and haven't produced any home-grown players for 15 years except Gary O'Neil and Sammy Igoe, then we might get a proper competition.

I'm not holding my breath, though. It's more likely that the Big Four, or the Aspiring Big Seven, will **** off and join some closed-shop European Showbiz League for Telly-watchers. That would suit me fine if it meant that clubs like Birmingham, Stoke, Burnley or even Watford might have a chance of getting near the top of the national league.

But things can't go on as they are, as somebody said recently.

 

Good post KJ.

I am in a very different position from you guys. Living in Denmark, deciding whether or not to go to the Vic isn't the choice. The choice is to follow the match on the shout box etc. or just check out the score whenever.

I think the recent events (since relegation from the Prem) have meant that a lot of people are feeling a little detached from the club. Too much has gone on in secret and too many conspiracy theories have been allowed to flourish.

It doesn't help that no one seems to know why our major shareholder is interested in the club - not even himself it seems.

This is where I disagree though. I see lots of good stuff.

We're overachieving compared to expectations in the summer. Especially taking the departure list into consideration. Smith, Priskin, Williamson were the notables but 13 player (I think it was) left us and yet we sit nicely in midtable at the moment.

We are producing talents on a regular basis - talent that either can fill places in our squad or talent that can be sold on to other clubs. The obvious one is Ashley young but we've recently sold Theo Robinson and JJtheTool, while we have a number of players who are doing good jobs for the first team on a regular basis.

We have recently weathered a severe financial storm. It won't be the last one BUT if we can make it to July 1st, we'll be rid of a number of higher earners DeMerit, Lee, Harley, Eustace and Hoskins along with the usual deadwood (North, Bennett, Henderson, Young, Parkes, Kiernan, Sordell, Gibson). Only one of the high earners (DeMerit) is a regular start if we have a fully fit squad. The rest are cover making them too expensive. We'll probably retain a few of the lower earners but they don't really matter much.

Fact is that in July we'll have room in our wage bill to add a few players - I'm hoping for the Cowie type. Cheap, hard working and good value for money. We get another chance to build a business model that is sustainable. This is key - but it is not very sexy to the average supporter. But the way things are going, being sustainable is becoming a very strong competitive advantage because sugar daddies are fewer and farther apart than ever before.

The final thing that ought to bring a bit of positivity to people is the fact that we now have GT as chairman. We have a very good management team on the business side of things and a very determined one of the football side of things. Malky may not be the best manager in the world but I think he is probably the best there is for this club. His knowledge, understanding and acceptance of the what the club is an the situation we're in makes him the ideal choice. His position is not one which will allow him much glamour - it is similar to that of Ray Lewington who kept us afloat on a shoestring and now gets so much flack for that. I said at the beginning of the season that keeping us in this league will be a massive achievement by Malky. We're not there yet but we've had a decent start.

You are right when you assume that this is the time the club really really needs you. People who fall away in the face of adversity is often referred to as glory hunters. I don't know about that but I think you are one of many who feel disillusioned now but who I also believe will find much enthusiasm next season when the club's situation has stabilised.

 

Good post

as a younger fan I make the effort to every game and even had my holiday dates changed so i don't miss a game but then that's mostly because i have a good time with my friends and enjoy the great moments like Doyley's first goal and that carries on to laughs in joke going around shouting Lloydiniho in classrooms for example.

Two of my family work at Watford Learning and they were saying Julian Winter is always popping in with ideas to get youngsters interested and coming to games, take Positive Futures for e.g but sadly the funding ran out,

But i think its the drastic change from Aidy-Brendan-Malky and all the money issues, but if Malky stays for 5 years i can see us getting back into a routine and having some ambitions,

 

My view is, that ever since I started following Watford in the late 60's (1960's not my 60's), they have lurched from one catastrophe to the other, interspersed with a few years of normality, the only real exception being the first Taylor era - which was absolutely surreal, I will always be indebted to that man for giving me something I never thought was any more than a pipe-dream.

For those old enough to recall when we climbed to the dizzy hieghts of the old division two under Ken Furphy, what did the club do? (rhetorical question) - instead of givivng the manager money for new players, they built and extension to the Main Stand, you know the one, the one that is now condemned.

I think the one thing you can say about supporting Watford is that it is never dull!

I agree with the posts of Admin, Leighton and co, in as much as when life circumstances change (familey etc), your priorities change with them - I had to put Watfod on the back-burner for a while when my kids were very young - now, I'm enjoying the thrill of my son attending matches with me every week. At first it was the odd home game, then back to being a season ticket holder and now quite a few away games thrown into the pot as well.

What I think you do learn over the years is that you should only really worry about something that you can affect. So whilst all the administration talk was a concern, and I feared for the Club's survival for a few days, the reality was I couldn't do very much about it. I was angry about the situation certain individuals let us get into, but then I've been equally angry in previous times - the fallout of the Vialli era - the Jim Bonsor and Mr Wise situation spring readily to mind.

The long and short of it is, is that Watford is in my blood, it always will be - even if the worst were to ever happen, they have brought me so much joy (and heartache) over the years - how on earth could you ever forget them?

By the way this has been the best thread on here in weeks.

 

KJ, further from my last post, I think your point about the "split" amongst fans is not that significant. I don't really think that our attendance at the games or interest/indifference towards our Club will be that affected by whether we are pro Russo or pro Ashcroft. I have switched from one to the other since the Administration saga and it won't affect me. I still love the club, just the same! On this and other boards I have had heated discussions on Russo v Ashcroft and it is fun.

Debate tests my own knowledge, opinions and understanding and when this issue dies down, I'll look for something else to challenge.

On this board in particular, though, there is a split. Those that want a debate and post their views with reasoned arguments and facts (sometimes both) versus those that disagree with views of others, but instead of a reasoned argument or facts they choose to only post personal abuse, vitriol and name calling with no counter argument whatsoever - and they think they are being clever! It is tiresome, childish and a threat to this sort of Message Board.

They shouldn't be looking to "debate". Instead, a "mass debate" may be more appropriate.

 

I aim to please

You are right. There are quite a few posters on here who would rather call someone an idiot than accept that not everybody see things their way. It's a shame because it does drive reasonable and well-informed posters away. If you post a way not subscribe to by the loud minority you get abuse. The best example is the wearing colours debate. Anyone wearing a Watford shirt on match days will be branded a **** rather than just be accepted as someone who chooses to show his/her support for the club in a specific way. Some people here are extremely narrow-minded and cannot accept that people are different. Or at least - cannot accept that there may be another opinion which may actually make sense.

KJ - I don't think the split between fans is that big. The stuff you get on here is amplified quite a bit because the extremes are the loudest. If you change some of the annonymous polls done in the past about Russos, Homer, Aidy, Todgers etc. i think you'll find that 80-90% of the posts support extreme views but maybe only 20% of posters are at extremes.

 

The sun still shines on the Golden Boys

There is some good stuff in this thread.

The way you support your club is bound to change over the years - as a youth in the 50s I followed the Horns home and away every week, whereas now living far from Watford I will probably see a handful of games (if that) a season.

I am a shareholder, have provided bricks to rebuild the stadium and have supported the club in many other ways over the years.

I too have reached the stage where I hate what big money has done to our game with mercenaries who have no affinity to the club (or country).

I now actively dislike watching the Prem. and am not that bothered about international football, however my passion for Watford is undimmed.

A couple of weeks ago when it looked as though the club might fail which brought it all home to me - the potential loss truly unbearable.

It is definately unfashionable but I appllaud Lord Ashcroft for saving this club and for allowing God to chair it.

No one can know what the future holds but we are currently mid table with a decent if inexperienced team and an honest manager (plus H and no Effinglump) so with the most objective board in years we should enjoy the moment:biggrin:

 

I take your point, Jelboy, but interestingly, GT said that the success of WFC during his 1st period in charge would not have been possible without the extra revenue (via increased seating) that "New Stand" generated when we started to fill it.

Your reference to Ken Furphy is also very apposite...before the 68-69 promotion season WFC had NEVER been as high as level 2 of English football.
That means 88 consecutive years in level 3 or lower; since that promotion we have been in level 2 or higher in 32 out of 41 seasons; since the 78-79 promotion to Div 2, we have spent all but 2 season in level 1 or 2.

My point is, where we are now is in itself a fantastic performance for a club like ours. Maybe the reason for the angst apparently felt by some of our fans is that because they cannot have the longer perspective, having become supporters during this latter "glory era", they do not identify mid-table in level 2 as being, in itself, success.

This is not to blame them for that, but if people expect a club like Watford to be consistently higher than 13th in Level 2, then I fear that disillusion will always be a dominant feature, especially in the current situation, where the craziness of the way the Sky & Champions League money is almost guaranteed to find its way exclusively into the accounts of, at best, 4 out of 6 clubs, results in the gradual destruction of the fundamental driver for the whole concept of professional sport as entertainment: realistic competition.

Factor in the way that money has driven a massive wedge between the supporter and a "typical" footballer, then we can start to see the dissolution of any concept of "the club" meaning anything to a player, whilst conversely, the player only means anything to a supporter because he is representing the supporter's club. When those players exhibit progressively less and less concept of any type of loyalty to anything other than their bank balance (whilst earning, even at Watford, more in a month than many of those supporters earn in a year), then the supporters' disillusionment with the players attitude will start to fatally undermine the regard in which those supporters hold the players; it is not that large a step then for such negative feelings to infect the way the supporters feel for the club itself.

It may not even be a conscious realisation, but it could probably explain the discomfort KJ feels at the way his own unreservedly loyal commitment seems to be waning.

It can't go on in this way. The only real question is whether, when the current "bubble" that has moved football so far away from the foundations of its success (the loyal fan base of every club) does burst, there will be enough of the original foundations left upon which to rebuild.

On a personal note, if WFC did go bust, I doubt if I'd even bother to watch football at all, even on the telly.

To paraphrase the name of an old group: Football Will Eat Itself

There's no doubt in my mind that the process is well advanced. Is it yet so far advanced it's already too late?

 

I think Watford supportors on the whole are a good loyal bunch, lets face it were a good family club. I think were a million miles away from the premership. Football has sadly gone the same route as motor racing money talks. Lets be honest we could all name the top six teams in the prem the rest are making up numbers. The Championship is a different story more exciting with everybody in with a shout of the play offs. The goings on in the board room is depressing but thats a knock on effect of going up then coming back down to earth with a bang.

I think weve all got to stick in there and get behind the lads supporting Watford is still affordable to most of us they dont rip your arm off like the big boys. Theres a lot of clubs in the **** like us but because were a P L C we cant hide our problems but at least ours are out in the open for all to see theres a lot of clubs in the championship trying to paper over the cracks with big money problems, heres to staying up.

 

Gents, I've removed 3 posts regarding the way people argue their points on this forum. I don't want a great thread like this to become a slanging match or go too far off topic, there is another thread about forum behaviour in the Lounge if you wish to discuss it.

Cheers.

 

Since 63,Harry,etc, that is how I see it.

Week to week, I prefer our league with better ( less up their own arses) opposition fans/pubs/prices/kick off times.

The Premier league is damaging to the game as I love it and as for the big 4 etc, please **** off to europe/pepsico full time.

Perspective is all and being a top 30 club is fine by me.The only thing good about the P League is trying to get there!

PS-er and the cash ( if you use it sensibly)

 

There are some cracking viewpoints on here... please do keep them coming. (PYA.. .UEA.. where are you?)

When starting this thread, the subject of football in general didnt exactly cross my mind but the more I think about it, the more I realise it's having a bigger impact than I thought. Maybe that's why my patience is wearing thin?

Just to comment on the age old "what should our expectations be" question.. I think it's much harder for the younger generations to understand this one and thats definitely clear from some of the responses on here. I started supporting the club in 1985.. (glory hunter I know) so to me, our natural position... call it the average... is mid/top half of championship. That is what I expect and anything less to me, is failure. In fact... in that time (25 years) we've been in the top flight for 5 years, 19 years in tier 2 and just the once in tier 3. Contrast THAT to those who have been supporting the club for 35+ years. The AVERAGE league position would be a lot lower.... does this mean that the "older generations" expectations are too?

 

Good post kj and i agree with you
Not renewed ST this season and with last seasons ST i went to half the games. This is the first time in 27 years boy to man.
I can handle us playing poor but the style of play towards the end of AB was cr4p this was were i started to find things i'd rather be doing on a Saturday like spending time with the wife and kids. Yes it scared me, was i growing up?
I was getting fed up getting to the ground and struggle to find positives to talk about. More talk about what the board were or were not doing than the players that matter. Money meaning everything in the game, cr4p refs making poor decisions (reading at home was the final straw). Players diving, cheating and just not giving a sh1t.
I do very much miss mates i've made at the ground i missed the good breakfast from the cafe and i miss the buzz of being at a game.
But i'm full after being fed spin with a side salad of bullsh1t.
I will be back i know i will but going to away matches first.
I long for football to go back to the days when it was the football on the pitch the counts but these days have been lost forever.

 

I cant concile the fact of average players like Hoskins through to someone like gareth barry earning obscene amounts or money ,and by obscene , can no one else see it , 7.5k A WEEK ?!?!?!?!? 100K A WEEK ?!?!?!?!? How , why , when ?!?! i know , i know , SKY ****ING TV,it tars football as a whole for me , i am unsure if this is just growing up because watching the world cups and euros through the 80`s and 90`s was fanatastic , and it just doesnt have the same feelings anymore.

 

:sign15:

 

our last prem year was the last one for me as a season ticket holder

been to a few matches since but there is no romance in the game now its just a business

still consider myself a supporter

 

Good comments and I concur pretty much with everything you say. One thing to bear in mind though is that in GT's era - we had terracing, that meant we could cope with crowds of 25,000 plus - that new stand probably introduced a couple of thousand at best extra seats. I don't dismiss your argument though as it is very valid and please, for one moment, don't think I was dissing the efforts of Ken Furphy, I wasn't - I just think with a bit more foresight from the board during our first campaign, KF may have been able to make a better fist of our sojourn into division two.