Was it really only 7th April 2019 when we beat Wolves in the FA Cup semi final, were 7th in the Premier League with Europe beckoning on two fronts. Roll on 16 months and we're now a Championship club facing the prospect of selling all our best players and looking to sign Udinese rejects and out of contract players. It's a dramatic nosedive. I still can't quite believe it all. I really hope the owners know what they are doing but my confidence in them has really been dented. Not only did they get it so wrong last season, by ignoring obvious deficiencies in defence, they seem to be panicking now in selling anyone they can, in the hope a team of kids and lower level journeymen can get us promoted. Of course they can turn it all around and prove themselves once more, but we're at a crossroads right now. They have to get this right, be brave and look to bounce back by keeping some of our better players. The squad needs to be trimmed, we all understand that, but we do need to keep players like Capoue and Sarr. Two players of immense quality and are two I think we could retain if we really wanted them to stay. The board have to be brave and decide to give it a real go this season. Players can always be sold further down the line if need be.
We haven't sold anyone yet Seriously does every thread have to be a depressing moan? How about discussing something positive like how good Quina looked yesterday from the highlights and how this could be his break through season
I don't see this as a depressing post at all. It's balanced with facts and obvious opinion. I think it has merit to point out the date of our semi final as that appears to have been the pinnacle of the Pozzo reign to where were are now, in just 16 months, how far back we've fallen in such a short space of time. Why wait for a couple of weeks before talking about it? I think it's clear to the thinking from the omissions from yesterday's line up as to the views of the club. No reason for Doucoure, Capoue, Welbeck, Pererya, Pussetto, Kiko or Deeney not to be part of things. Obviously Hughes, Wilmot, Janmaat and Deulofeu are out through injury and Sarr because of quarantine. Estupinan not involved maybe a concern too and the breaking story of the Sarr casts further doubt. It seems to me that the 18 who took part yesterday will all be in Ivic's plans, apart from Stevenson probably. You can add Hughes, Wilmot & Hughes to the 18 and maybe Forestieri, but that could be about it.....apart from some more stocking fillers from Udinese or loans/bargain buckets from other clubs. If that is the case, and it very much points in that direction.......is that enough for promotion?
The owners, even though experienced football club owner, were completely out of their depth in the premier league. They had money to spend and they spent it extremely poorly. We are not back in the championship in an environment more suited to their recruitment style. They need to adapt if we are to get promoted and thrive in the premier league. Yes, attracting the best players costs money, but the Pozzos completely lost their heads and forgot their work style all together
I think it’s worth remembering that whatever their mistakes, we wouldn’t have been within a country mile of the PL if it wasn’t for the Pozzo’s. They are not idiots, so they will balance the need to manage the finances, but also leave us with a shot of getting back in the Premier. They are not going to take stupid risks and gamble with the future of the club. I also don’t see the obsession with being in the PL, personally I enjoyed the Championship more.
The Championship is good if you're having a good season, it's a sack of sh1te if you're mid-table or struggling. The Premier League is the place to be. It's where the money is and the only place where you can rapidly grow your club. I think the Pozzo's maybe struggling financially. I think they need us to go up this season or else they could be in trouble. This is how I see it, so I think they will need to either sell all decent players then sell the club or back us this season to the max in order to go up. I can't see a half-way house in this.
I went on today to view the highlights and the ifollow is down for new users. Anyone lend me there login details so I can watch?
Just going to chuck this into the pot and I fully appreciate I am going solo here, but.... I won’t miss Capoue. I think he slows things down too much, makes one good long pass every now and again and everyone goes crazy - I honestly struggle to see what it is he brings. I don’t think he’s that good defensively and players run off him with ease leaving him chasing shadows. He wins nothing in the air either for that matter. I Would prefer someone with more energy, drive and purpose in the middle of the park ...... hardly been a queue of teams lining up to buy him over the years
I can see your point, but at the beginning of last season many nembers on here were concerned about the direction the club was taking. Rumours of unrest in the dressing room, the lack of pre season fitness training and the team looking clueless on the pitch. These concerns turned out to be true and relegation was always on given how the players didn't seem to give a toss. It is also not easy to smile about the forthcoming season in a very weak Championship. We could be be fielding a strong, exciting side if certain players are not sold. If we do sell, then we will be fielding a poor side playing mediocre football for Championship survival. Financially, we are in the s**t, not as bad as Bournemouth, though they have greater assets to sell than us. Right now the water is rising and none of us know if we will sink or swim.
If we lose Capoue or Sarr and don't replace them with top-end Championship players-no chance. Happy to lose Doucs, Pererya, Femenia, Welbeck, Pussetto and Kiko, if we adequately replace them with capable players at this level. Still undecided on Deeney. I think his experience could be useful and he will score goals. The flip side being, this has to be his last year with us. If we did get promoted it may be harder for a new captain to settle.
I agree.....I think if we keep the 17 players on show yesterday (not including the trialist) and add Hughes, Wilmot, Estupinan, Janmaat, Pedro, Sarr and Capoue....this will be the bare minimum, IMO, of how far we can cut back before it really hits us. We could probably get away with selling all the others and still have a good shout of promotion.....but Capoue, Sarr and I should imagine Suarez will be absolutely key to any promotion push.
I am sure they are struggling financially so they will need to cut their cloth accordingly this year. If our wage bill is c.£80m, then we will need to bring in around £45-50m, in reduced wages or transfer fees. That figure ignores any losses incurred last season as a result of Covid. If they don’t make that adjustment, and we aren’t promoted, we will be a much worse position a year from now- possibly on the brink of administration. That doesn’t mean we have to get rid of all the saleable assets, but they will need to cash in on some of them. On the plus side there will be a number of new players come in - some of whom are already at the club - Pedro, Willmott, Quina. Along with hopefully some others like a Suraez, Percia, Pervis (if he stays).
Isn’t any division a sack of ***** if you’re struggling? Mid table premier league is our ceiling, and it’s utterly boring. We will go up again at some point. And when we do, that promotion season will be a million times more enjoyable than the season that follows when we just try and avoid relegation.
I broadly agree with this. I think he’s been the most frustrating player over the last few years, purely because he is one of the best but rarely meets his potential. Slowing the game down is his worst trait. However I do think we would miss his better performances.
In my opinion our greatest asset this coming season will be Ivic. I believe he will be worth a few extra places in the table, whatever squad he is given to work with. Like HB1 when he started off this thread, I dearly wish for us to be able to find the right balance between the necessity of having to sell some of our key assets but also retaining some as well, to give us the edge quality wise on many of our forthcoming opponents. So far it seems every day brings new rumours of big name departures, but worth noting that (as with Bournemouth too), none have yet gone and the likely probability is not all will. Hopefully! Although so far all our actual or rumoured incomings seem to be free transfers or loans, which is fairly gloomy, it shouldn’t be beyond us to put together a decent squad for the season ahead. A nice mix of youth and experience, flair and steady, exciting and reliable. When we went up last time, the likes of Ben Watson played a vital role alongside the more exciting likes of Vydra, Abdi etc. I’m heartened that we still seem to have a decent and experienced spine running through our team..Foster, Hughes, Cleverley, Cathcart/Dawson etc and looking forward to seeing the flair of Suarez, Pedro, Sarr (fingers crossed) added to that. I can’t comment on the finances as I know nothing about stuff behind the scenes, and even if I did it would be pointless as nobody of influence would listen to me anyway, but I really hope we are brave with our recruitment and fight hard to keep those we don’t want to see go (Sarr being the obvious case) rather than try to do everything on the cheap. This has to be the season to go back up because our history shows our second season back in the Championship has usually been a disaster (Harrison’s second season, Vialli, Boothroyd’s second season after relegation).
Fact. After the Semi Final I placed a curse on the club. I paid for 5 years so there's a way to go yet. I really did this.
I said after the cup semi final that if the club weren't careful, it'd be one of the worst results in our history. You can check the various threads from around the time. I was rounded on by usual suspects and COGs. Unlike them, I don't need to rewrite history and pretend that I also saw it coming.
Isn't it about time you gave up on the 'I told you so' claims? You didn't see it coming, it was a 'lucky' guess. Even a clock is right twice a day.
I’d agree with that. He’s our premier league version of Abid or Fessi, our first decent premier league signing and a very skilful and classy player, hence most of our fans love him. However he’s only at Watford and been happy here for five years because he likes an easy life. He didn’t cut it at Tottenham because he just hasn’t got it in him mentally. He’d rather be a big fish in a small pond at Watford and effortlessly strole around the pitch and basically be loved and get no criticism. I’d seriously question what his commitment would be like a league lower. At his age and if he doesn’t have a relegation wage cut I’d be willing to guess he’d actually enjoy it, but that probably wouldn’t be a good thing for us. I like him (who wouldn’t) and I’d be happy to keep him, but I don’t see him as a big miss, we’d be far better off with a younger player with everything to prove.
I disagree. After the cup semi we were poor in the league, which is not uncommon (unless you're one of the top 6) in a run-up to an FA Cup Final. It also replicated all our seasons in the Prem in this stint where we were poor as the season came to an end. It was only when we had a poor start to last season and QSF replaced Gracia were the signs becoming clearer and the more pessimistic members on this board could look back in hindsight with some justification for their 'I told you I was right' claims. Anything further back than that was pure conjecture and coincidence. There was no special insight into how the following season would pan out. Complaints that they were 'rounded on by the usual suspects' also hold no credence either as they gave as good as they got with their happy-clapper & flag-waver taunts.
I think there were a fair few people pointing out recruitment failures before the successful Gracia season and the shortcomings of the Pozzo model and their blind spots. They were then ridiculed as Gracia played a blinder but the holes in the squad remained and came to fruition the following year. Of course rehiring QSF was a real negative which didn’t help but I think the poor performance of the owners in transfer windows had a cumulative impact on the squad. And these failures were called out long before it went so spectacularly wrong. To dismiss those concerns as guesses or coincidence comes over as unnecessarily ungracious. I agree that negative posters and positive ones each give as good as they get though.
This is a hilariously biased analysis, and in the part I've highlighted you appear to be making the claim that the concept of forecasting or observation-based foresight just doesn't exist.
