Couldnt agree with you mroe either goldie well I would but robo would get jealous....hes a bit like that....very possesive....:]]
Well I doubt Bryan or Young will be good enough because they aren't getting any first team experience - partly because we have Clevery and Lansbury. Question is if they were ever going to be good enough. Bennett has had some experience this season and will be even closer to a first team place next season I'm sure. Lee Hodson is this year's "Youngster breaking through" - this year's equivalent of Jenkins last year and O'Toole the year before. But then again we haven't brought in any fullbacks on loan. We are in a far healthier position (it seems) than I had expected us to be in at this point. And there's no doubt that our loanees have played their part (a big part) in that. But the cost is not giving Sordell, Bryan, Young, Henderson, Bennett etc. any time at first team level. Had we been forced to play Sordell and Bryan rather than Cleverley and Lansbury I'm sure we'd be nearer Reading than we are. I'm certain the powers that be - in this case Malky and our management team - are aware of the pros and cons of playing other teams' talents ahead of our own. My point in previous posts is simply that we need to be careful we don't end up relying solely on talent of others and not developing our own talent at all.
You've got to choose, Spud... It's me or Golden. I'm fed up being you bit on the side. You don't write, you don't call, you don't PM..... :'(
The problem with that outlook Kris is that it works on paper but not in reality. Yeah, on paper Mssrs Lansbury and Cleverley are keeping our own youth out of the team and thereby denying them first team experience. But in reality the Championship is one hell of a tough league and none of those players you name are likely to make a significant contribution to our staying in it. Take Bennett for example - I went to the Coventry game t'other week and he looked every inch the child defender with no experience he is on paper. Woeful in nearly every way. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold that against the lad. Time is on his side to develop and eventually make it if he has the potential to do so. Frankly the failure - forced by our financial situation - isn't that we've had to bring in the young star players on loan, it's that we don't have the strength in depth to loan our own youth out to lower clubs to gain the necessary experience. They're needed as backup here. Ironic really as none of them are likely to be good enough for this level and constant reliance on them would only lead to League One football. That I guarantee. But contrary to your suggestion that they're being denied opportunities here I'd say the much more damaging impact on their development is that we can't afford to loan them out. We're stuck big time.
I agree it is a bit sad that our best players are on loan however it is more of an example of the top clubs taking all the best players than something against our club. At the end of the day I would rather these players were on loan with us than any of our rivals so with the way top clubs run their youth teams and with the loan system how it is we have to make the most of it. If these players had come through our youth system they would have been signed by a big club a couple of years ago for next to nothing anyway.
That is true and a very good point. I'd be tempted to say it is both your case and mine that is the truth. Tom and Henri do keep out players of our own - but not our youngsters because as you point out - they are nowhere near ready. But they are keeping out Hoskins and the Duke. But playing Hoskins and the Duke for Tom and Angela with any of Sordell, Bryan, Young and Hendo2 as cover - would mean league one. In fact there are a few of our youngsters who could easily go out without us missing them: Young, Hendo2, Parkes, Oshodi, Kiernan and Brooks. They aren't cover at all. - any of them could go out on loan without leaving us short. Only trouble is they aren't good enough - even at BSP level. We have little quality ourselves but have brought in some on loan. Maybe our own players aren't kept out as they are simply not good enough to be in - but we have a number of youngsters we could farm out. Only thing is the ones that are worth just a little bit (Hodson, Jenkins, Bennett) are backups to the senior side - heck two of them are regulars at the moment. So yes our squad is thinner than a bulimic supermodel but through Malky's ability to instill team spirit and fight in the lads we are punching above our weight. It won't last - I just hope it lasts long enough to secore another season in the CCC - then I'll worry about next season's loan players... deal?
I agree Kris. Ive said before we are punching above our weight and this is partly down to Malky and having youth in our side. Whether that youth can last a whole season is another thing. We've got a damn sight more points on the table than I ever imagined we would at this stage of the season. If we can keep this form going and stay in the Championship this year, get some money and strengthen our squad with quality signings in the close season next year, just to bolster the squad, we can push for promotion. But then again Im not sure if I want us to get promoted. I hate the Premierbore. Theres too many poseurs and bullshine surrounding it. For instance if Rooney or Torres had scored Lansbury's first goal from Friday, we would never hear the last of it. But because the Championship is the Premierbores unfashionable and poor relation, it wont get shown again. Its bo**ox of the highest degree. I got sick and tired of having Chumpions League re-runs thrust down my neck last week, including clubs from abroad that Id never heard of, let alone care about, when there was a whole host of games in the Championship, involving English teams, that got totally ignored. Its scandalous really. And people wonder why theres no revenue in the Championship. Its partly down to the lack of coverage. The footballs definately more unpredictable and just as good, if not better, than the other shyte shown. People worry about Cleverrley and Lansbury but I bet they're loving it, playing for us. And they will bring our youngsters on, teach them good habits, new tricks of the trade and breed confidence. Things are healthy, who knows whether it will last, we just gotta enjoy it.
Premiershyte is definitely a double edges sword. I'd much rather be in the Chumpionsh!t than up there. Hated it both times we have been up there. What I would hate even more is to have some ridiculous Saudi foreign investment. I'd rather be skint and fight for relegation every year than have some no-mark oil baron come in with a load of dodgy money, hand us £40m and watch us buy a load of overpaid, overrated egotistical canuts so we can finish 15th in the most boring, ridiculous league in the world known as the Premiershyte. Up yours success, I don't want you.
Presumably then, certain contributors to this thread will never again moan about the financial constraints the club is under... Constraints that would evaporate upon promotion to the Premier league. Ho Hum.
Oh I want us to get promoted. But I want us to use the money we'd get more wisely than last time. I'd only get players in on contracts with clauses that said "if relegated your wages drop accordingly". If that means we couldn't get players in - so be it. It would mean going back down but with a wad of cash in the bank. For that I'd build a team up - again without ridiculous wages. A team that can survive on a CCC income. Use the left-over cash to make the club self-sustainable. I'm sure it can be done so that you go up and come back down without screwing up your team or your club.
In my opinion Cleverley has been class all season, Lansbury has had some poor games, yes he was brilliant on Friday but he has had some stinkers,when the cameras werent there.
I agree with you, plus watch out for a lad coming through called Matt Whicelow hes an attacking midfielder in the same role as Lansbury ( you heard it hear first )
I dont agree with you on the Oshodi and Brooks arguement, do you ever go and watch the youth play, if you do tell me the faults with Brooks and Oshodi ? what people are forgeting is this home grown rule coming in means you must of had a percentage of players produced at your own Acadamey no one elses.
if they were good enough to go out on loan do you not think they would? Brooks is 18 and needs 1st team experience to develop. Instead he is playing academy and reserves matches. Oshodi is only 17 and is a youth international so take him off my list - he can go out next season
That's a very simple view Kris. To look it as though "he's 18, he should be good enough to go out on loan, so why hasn't he" is very black and white. He should be judged on an individual basis, he's played very well but I don't feel he's ready for a loan spell, he hasn't even got a pro contract yet. Although I think in the future it won't matter as much, at the moment his height would be an issue in the rough and tumble of lower league football as he must only be around 5"5' so it would be unfair on him to chuck him into that situation.
It is very simple. At 18 he hasn't got a pro contract - he must be good then? I know you have a superior knowledge of our youngsters and I have lots of respect for that but reality is that while we do have quite a few decent youngsters we have some rather poor ones as well. I know I'm generalising but if an 18yo hasn't got a pro contract yet - surely he's not going to make it at CCC level... ever?
He's not got a pro contract yet because he's still a scholar and the decision for all the scholars will be made near the end of the season. He's already made his first team debut with us and made an appearance for the first team during pre-season so he's highly rated and I'm very confident that he'll be kept on.
They cant give all the scholars there pro contracts early, with the exception of Hodson and Forester they need to keep them mean and keen right to the end. Brooks is a holding midfielder and good as well, the problem is they have alot of midfielders coming through the ranks and they have to be sure. Just because you dont go on loan means nothing, Jenkins and Hodson never went on loan and went straight into the championship, its what you do at reserve level and your attitude in training that matters.
