Promotion - How Is It Achieved?

Mathematics is not my strong point but I've done some calculations and have come to the conclusion that if we win every game we will be promoted as Champions. Anything less will be seen as failure in my eyes.

 

45 wins and a draw would be enough.

 

I think Welbeck will likely be off. An EPL team will panic as the window starts to close and buy him. Doucoure, Femenia and Pereyra of course gone a;so. Deulofeu is interesting. As many have said, he likely won't be proved fit for some months. The question then becomes, how much are people willing to pay for him and where are we in the table. If we're comfortably in an automatic promotion spot, who knows, he might stay. I'd love to see Gray off, simply to reduce the wage bill, although he could certainly be of use at this level.

I think our fortunes sink or swim based on whether we can find a group that can boss the midfield. If we do that, we should have enough talent to score goals and cover any residual lack of pace in defence (which should be mitigated by the level somewhat anyway). This is probably Troy's swansong. He's got plenty of money and he plays in a lot of pain. I think he tries to stay on to see us promoted, then retires.

 

Well, that’s a case of damning with faint praise if ever I heard it.

 

Not taking our chances was a massive issue for us last season.

Sure we'll get more chances per game in the Championship.

Getting the central striking role right is key for us, however strong our midfield might look.

 

Depends on away goals and games that are 6 pointers m8

 

The focus should definitely be on trying to keep Welbeck, not Deeney and Gray. It's looking more likely that Suarez will be staying with us and with the apparent possession based game that our new boss reportedly plays then we need to be playing some strikers that have an eye for goal, not a great lump to attempt to hold the ball up or a striker with next to no ball control. The team's attitude has stunk for years now and I reckon getting rid of these 2 will do wonders for the rest of the squad.

Ngakia and Janmaat (although made of glass) are my choices for RB, and I suppose Kiko could be useful cover for each full back position should we not sell him. Estupinan seems unlikely as only 1 year left which is a huge mistake on our part considering that most of our older guys were given 4 or 5 year deals. So we will need a new left back. Still unsure on Masina but willing to give him a chance.

Defence is a mess, but I certainly hope Wilmot is given a chance. Lost faith in Cathcart after being dropped last season so I suppose that Dawson or Kabs could do a job next to Wilmot... if it was my choice I'd get rid of the 3 of them. Decent reinforcements needed.

Personally I'd rather give Chalobah and outing over Cleverley and look to introduce some new blood (Gueye would have been perfect...)

 

One thing that has always been prominent in a promotion season is a siege mentality. Certainly as you get towards the business end of the season around March/April time it is all about momentum and getting over the line. Squad unity will be really important.

 

There have been a number of reports suggesting that Estupinan’s contract was extended and won’t run out in 2021. Discussed at length in the Estupinan threat. Of course, it’s still pretty likely he’s sold and we need a new LB.

 

Not up to date with the forum as still on furlough (sigh) so not using forum to skive off work but if true then excellent. We need to be giving the younger players we hoarded and got permits for a proper chance.

 

So the only time you don't read the forum is when you have all the time in the world?

 

Anyone in the top ten at the beginning of January is in with a chance of promotion. The previous 3 times we were relegated from the PL we kept the same manager and most of the players, got off to a great start, looked nailed on for promotion and then collapsed. In 20/21 if we can pick up points in the first 10 games, dig in deep through the winter and then take off in january/february with a squad that still has plenty of fuel left in the tank that would be ideal.

 

Deeney is not a high scoring striker (from open play) probably averaging around 6 goals a season from open play in the last 3 or 4 seasons maybe even less! Richarlison made some interesting comments about Deeney around the time JP signed, saying it was difficult for a striker joining Watford cos of Deeney. I doubt someone who has played with Neymar and Jesus was talking about his quality! Richarlison couldn't get out the door fast enough. When I look at attacking players like Vydra, Ighalo, Gray, Richarlison, Pereyra and Sarr all hitting purple patches and then fading/dying, I worry the same thing could happen to Luis Suarez and Cucho under Deeney's 'leadership'.

 

I'd like to see a more intelligent player like Hughes being captain and also several other leaders emerge and be developed within the squad. It shouldnt all rest on the shoulders of one player. We need to move from Troy's me me me 'leadership' style to a more collective leadership aporoach. Im just concerned Troy will try to undermine Hughes now he knows he's viewed as a better choice of captain by some fans.

 

To clarify, I meant high scoring in the Championship.

 

Everyone is suggesting Hughes should be captain, but I wonder if someone else might be a better choice as although Hughes was probably our best player during the nine game mini league we have just had, is necessarily a leader?

I'm not sure who would make a good leader out of our existing squad, so maybe we should be looking to recruit a potential leader from outside the club and parachute him straight into the Captaincy? This would also have the advantage of him not having any baggage with Deeney, if he is still with us, that any of the existing squad would probably have if they stepped into his shoes.

 

This is the kind of thing that clubs generally have to resort to when they are relegated via points deduction into League Two and any viable player fire-sold so they're forced to field a line up of children. By contrast, we've just come off five years in the Prem. I think this would send out a very odd and inflammatory message, both to the dressing room and, in reality, fans; I really can't see it happening.

 

Gray has a much better record than Deeney in the Championship, is younger and in much better shape

 

Does he?

Deeney- 2, 11, 20, 24, 21 goals between 10/11 and 14/15

Gray- 17, 25 goals between 14/15 and 15/16.

It's certainly debatable.

Deeney had attitude problems in his 2 seasons with us, then went to prison. You could argue that those are write-offs. Obviously Gray's GPG is higher, but he only did it over 2 seasons.

Then Deeney played with better players etc

I think they're both as (in) effective as each other tbh.

 

For once, I agree with you. I’m not saying Hughes would be a bad captain at all - and I think a bit like Henderson, Beckham (with England), he would take time to grow into the role rather than being a ready-to-go leader.

But does he have that? None of us really know and I suspect a few us are assuming he doesn’t because he was the only player brave enough for post-game interviews after lockdown and because he charged around a pitch a lot. He motivated himself to play at a decent level - but can he motivate others to do the same?

Personally, if we could sign a Shane Duffy or Matt Clarke, who both have leadership experience, then I’d be keener on them getting the job. A totally new voice.

 

Best chance of having them both be effective? Play them together. But given the new coaches preferred formations, I don’t think we will see that.

 

In Deeney's first season he was forced to play on the wing as we had Graham and Sordell banging them in.

 

It's a recipe for disaster. We need new forwards playing not Deeney or Gray of 5 or 6 seasons ago. They're not the same players.

 

I don’t disagree. Think it’s fairly certain from my posts over the past however long that I agree - but I’m talking from a position of ‘if they are here, what’s the best chance of at least getting something out of them?’ - and that’s playing them together.

Not saying that’s what I want or would do. I think 442 or 352 doesn’t suit the squad we have. But I think that’s how we get the best (of what’s left) out of the pair of them.

Although I disagree it’s a recipe for disaster depending on what you mean by ‘disaster’. Whilst I don’t think either striker is enough to get us promoted, do you class anything less than that as ‘disaster’? Deeney and Gray will be far from the worst strikers in the league next season - they just aren’t useful for our particular purposes.

I’d say ‘disaster’ is relegation again or being in and around the bottom places all season - I think Deeney and Gray would be good enough to keep us above that. But we need the likes of Joao Pedro, Suarez, Sarr and Welbeck to compete at the top end - either Deeney or Gray are fine to supplement that group on the bench IMO. But I don’t think either of them would settle for that and would be an expensive option. So that’s why it’s best they move on. They aren’t redundant with us - there is a role they can fill if wages were no problem and they were willing to fill it.

 

Jesus I can't bare the thought as those two as our starting forwards.

As for formation I agree too, not sure how he would approach it at this present time.

No doubt we will be seeing some movement in and out very soon and hopefully Vlad will have some kind of input.

 

Vlad will want to properly assess his squad I imagine. Unless people want to leave I doubt things are going to happen imminently.

 

I actually think Capoue would make a good captain. I seriously hope he stays with us and think he has at least 2 good seasons in him. A class act when on his ‘game’ and well capable of driving us to promotion

 

Too old and has had it before when Deeney was injured. Needs to be someone we can look to the future with.

 

I like Hughes and think he is one of the few with much credibility left, not sure if he is fiery enough to be the captain but he certainly isn’t shy of putting the boot in.

Troy is often known as “mr nice “, but it it’s time for “Mr do what the manager ******* tells you”, I would bing back Holebas and make him captain.

From our current squad not sure anybody really stands out as a motivator or an enforcer style of captain , can’t think of anybody that you would follow into battle except Hughes. Maybe Foster, but could you imagine players like maps, capoue , Gray as captain

if Troy goes think you are right we would need someone with experience

 

This is just another sad legacy of the pitiful state of our centre backs/defensive options.

 

Hughes as new captain for me. No doubt about it.

 

Why do people automatically assume Hughes would make a good captain? I'd like it to be someone else but we dont know which player(s) have the appropriate leadership and motivational qualities.

 

Goals should do it. Score more goals than the opposition every week.