Why is Deeney STILL untouchable?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by NathWFC, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. AupaAthletic

    AupaAthletic Academy Graduate

    Given, not all Spanish players can play for Athletic Club, it seems more appropriate to call them what they are, which is a Basque club.
    However, what has that got to do with the argument, that the captain isn't a great passer, as I questioned initially?
     
  2. AupaAthletic

    AupaAthletic Academy Graduate

  3. Interesting region. Most Basques feel a closer connection to the Basques in France than the rest of Spain. Many kids aren't even taught Spanish at school.
     
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  5. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    Hopefully the players who are taking "his place" will start scoring goals to keep him out. If we are still failing as we have been he should be back in the team.
     
  6. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    But he can’t play as a lone striker. And the better players we have lend themselves to the formation that QSF is trying to implement. We simply should not bend ourselves just to get Deeney in the line-up.

    Welbeck needs to be the one who we put faith in.
     
  7. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Need him back now more than ever & it's obvious to see why.

    The only one that I've seen that still brings true captaincy & leadership to the team, good penalty taker & got 11 goals last season, how much more do you want to ask for, especially at his age, but that still isn't enough for some.
     
    Jack5 likes this.
  8. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    The same ones that wanted European football last year.
     
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    True captaincy and leadership - really? Good penalty taker simply isn’t a good reason based on how many penalties we get.

    I’m not a Deeney-basher by any stretch - but he’s just as much a bad captain as he is a good one. People just think he’s good because we are so bereft of any other leadership qualities .
     
    wfcmoog and scummybear like this.
  10. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Is this a joke? How much "leadership" did we see from him at the end of last season, in the cup final, and at home to Brighton?!

    He's as detrimentally past it and complacent as loads of our other so-called experienced pros.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  11. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Certainly not perfect but the way we are at the moment, need a bit of his ego & tenacity in there. He's dug us out of holes before. I'll probably be reminding you of this post.
     
  12. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Not worth answering this in any detail.
     
  13. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Stefano Okaka has dug us out of holes before. Doesn’t mean he should have stayed...

    That’s just it. His captaincy is 90% ego and very little on-field leadership.

    I’m more and more convinced people see what they want to see with Deeney these days, rather than what is actually there.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Well you can’t answer the first paragraph in detail. LR is quite right.
     
  15. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Oh, we're still pretending Deeney is a good captain, not two years past it and would make a blind bit of difference to our current form...
     
  16. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Yeah, he didn't made a blind bit of difference to our form.

    He's just the latest of our players to be benefitting from the fallacy that because our last few performances were so dreadful, that anyone not currently playing in the team can't possibly be any worse and so should make a positive difference when brought back in - only for it to be the case that they are indeed just as bad - see also Janmaat, Foulquier, Welbeck, Masina, Wilmot (probably), etc.
     
  17. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    tbf, could he make it worse?

    EDIT: well, I guess LR thinks so!
     
  18. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Indeed.
     
  19. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    I really don't see the point of the hate campaign on here against Deeney, I guess just because the team are in dire straights & you need to get your anxiety off your chests somehow.

    There there it will all be ok soon.

    & you @Burnsy complain about everything & anything nowadays. You never used to be like that?
     
  20. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Straits. Mark Knopfler agrees.
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  21. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Have you installed any microwave ovens.
     
  22. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    When?
     
  23. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    No. But "chicks for free" sounds tempting.
     
  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Woah. I am actually very even handed with praise and and criticism. Happy for you to view my posting history to see that.

    I said nothing even remotely abusive towards you so it’s pretty clear you just can’t stand debate against your eternally positive outlook. Happy to debate the merits of Deeney’s captaincy with you. The fact you’ve resorted to the reply you have shows me you might struggle to do so beyond buzz words like ‘tenacity’ and ‘good penalty taker’.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  25. Final piece of the jigsaw.
     
  26. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    What is your final piece? Lives nearer to you than me?
     
  27. ITK platypus

    ITK platypus Reservist

    Well his longest injury spell he's had has coincided with Watford being as bad as we have been. Pretty big coincidence if that's all it is...
     
  28. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Come on, that was not an abusive response I gave you, or otherwise your threshold is low. Even so if you are offended I apologise. Also it's your view that you are "actually very even handed with praise & criticism"

    Ok let's debate. Could we start with you explaining what was wrong with his contribution of 11 goals in 37 matches last season, his hold up play, lay offs & assists?

    No one is saying he's Maradona or the most consistent, this is WFC.
     
  29. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Nothing is wrong with his contribution of 11 goals in 37 games. But translating that to the formation that QSF has moved us to, which suits our better players doesn’t work. It’s known that Deeney cannot play the lone striker role. And a key part of playing that role is hold-up play and lay-off’s. Yes, he can do that in a certain formation and under a certain style but that isn’t what we are moving to. Being a lone striker means you have to be a far more rounded (enter fat joke here) player than Deeney is at this point in his career.

    As for his leadership - I have no doubts that he’s great around London Colney and the dressing rooms. But he just can’t keep up to standard on the pitch. What I can agree on is that he is the best ‘leader’ we have - but I take the view more that that is a damning indictment of how many leaders we have in the squad. He doesn’t set high standards, I don’t see him getting about the pitch encouraging (the opposite in fact) and he generally blames his teammates for his own shortcomings on the pitch. Good club captain, below average team captain. His days of being a good leader were under Zola/Jokanovic with a rag-tag bunch of foreign players who didn’t get a game elsewhere and wanted to feel loved - that doesn’t work with good PL International players. They will look at his ability and who is he to get at them.

    As I said in my first post, I’m not a Deeney-basher. And some of my criticism is difficult to give as I recognise it’s not his fault the club have fallen short of its duty in having a succession of leadership or creating a strong ‘leadership group’. But there’s very little in his captaincy or striking ability in the last 6-8 months that tells me we ‘need him more than ever’.

    And no, you didn’t abuse me. That wasn’t my point even if I phrased it badly! But you stated I complain about ‘anything and everything’ and I think it’s clear to all that I really don’t, so it’s a lie.
     
  30. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Burnsy has joined Jumbo, Nath and GD on the naughty step.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  31. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    It's nothing new - Deeney has been in decline since Ighalo's hot streaked stopped, with left Deeney exposed as the incredibly limited player he is.

    Here's a thread pointing out similar from almost 2 years ago: http://wfcforums.com/index.php?thre...eney-empire-professor-steve-leo-beleck.53860/

    He had a brief revitalising at the start of last season coinciding with him supposedly having improved his diet, getting a new missus, and the whole team in general being in flying form, but after a couple of months he reverted back to his previous, standard performance level which mostly involved chasing shadows and struggling to get in the box and on the end of crosses.
     
    Bwood_Horn and scummybear like this.
  32. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    No, we've been as bad as we've been since the Wolves semi-final. Deeney has very much been a part of many of those dreadful performances, including not helping the team out one bit with his moronic sending off vs Arsenal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
    wfcmoog likes this.
  33. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    "nothing wrong with his contribution of 11/37 (1st para) but 'can't keep to standard on the pitch' (2nd para) - not sure I understand the contention in that correctly?

    Essentially it seems you're saying you think he's ok, stats decent & our best leader, bar the system QSF employs?

    He's been out for a large part of this season, so whats the harm in reintroducing him as sub & then see how it goes from there, because let's face it that is exactly what's likely to happen in the next few weeks anyway.
     
  34. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    What Deeney does bring, despite his obvious faults as a player nowadays, is passion for the shirt. Not every game, but most games he plays in, especially in our Championship promotion season under Joka - he had hunger and desire. I can still see that in him even now. Yes, he can be lazy, swing his arms around like a windmill and plod up the pitch when he feels the need, but he does at least give 100% when he wants to.

    I agree with most of the above about him however, he was awful in the Brighton game, I wondered which player had turned up that had kidnapped our captain. Something he can hopefully instil into the squad is a bit of passion and a non-defeatist mentality. I just hope the players follow suite.
     
  35. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    That happens with all players bar the elite few that have the benefit of consistency to their game, let alone at the top level. As I said earlier this is WFC not Barcelona.

    Last seasons stats were more than credible so it seems foolish to completely write him off, which some on here are doing.
     

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