Who Stays, Who Goes, Who Needs Signing?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by lowerrous, Apr 17, 2022.

  1. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Hopefully we can get Success back. Should never have let the Crown Jewels leave. Given he has scored a grand total of 1 goal this season for Udinese, he would be a perfect fit
     
  2. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I don't see the point of spending any of what limited funds we'll have on Doig and Ramsay to warm the bench; especially Doig when we just splashed out on Kamara. I can't imagine the club doing it either. Ebosele will also hopefully remove the need for Ramsay.
     
  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I’d be confident saying Ramsay would play over Femenia. But yeah, I agree Doig would be unlikely if Kamara stays.
     
  4. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Trouble is, we would need to be signing 3 or 4 players who would be our 3 or 4 best players. How likely is that, given our transfer record?

    To sign a capable no. 9, a creative mid, a DMF etc who fit our needs and make our first 11 better?

    That's just now how we do business. The last 7 or 8 windows should have show you that and if it hasn't, then you deserve what you're gonna get.
     
    Dorset-Orn likes this.
  5. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Understatement of the day.
     
  6. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Can we start a thread of players we need to sign if we stay up ?
     
  7. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    I don’t think there’s anything to be gained by having anybody in the first team set up next season who it’s felt isn’t capable of playing in the PL in the (probably unlikely) event that we go straight back up.

    Otherwise we end up with situations like the Gosling one.

    If the likes of Cleverley, Cathcart, Kabasele, Bachmann, Fletcher etc all feature heavily next season, we could be back to square one if we go up.
     
  8. LouOrns

    LouOrns First Year Pro

    This is only relevant depending on what metrics you look at
     
  9. Chewitt

    Chewitt Forum Extraordinaire

    Fletcher is a complete donkey, leave him in America please.
     
    wfcmoog, Knight GT and luke_golden like this.
  10. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    That's what GT always tried to do when heading up the leagues. sign players who are capable of playing in the league above. Based on that I would go for
    GK - Okoye and Dahlberg. Foster and Bachmann will leave. I would not be against signing another keeper but suspect having paid £6m for Okoye he will be number 1
    LB - Hopefully Kamara stays with Leventhals golden boy as back up. Masina to leave as not good enough at PL level and Rose as well of course
    RB - Happy for Femenia to stay but let Ngakia leave. Will need to sign another right back, maybe Ebosele
    CB - Tough one this as none are good enough at PL level but can't get rid off all of them in one go. I would keep Kabasele and maybe Cathcart but we need improvements here. May be Rodon from Spurs
    MF - Hope to see Louza stay. I reckon Kucka may well be here but not sure about Sissoko. The rest can go and I include Quina, TDB and Phillips in that
    Attack - Hungbo, Pedro, Cucho, Baah (maybe out on loan), Asprilla. Sarr, Dennis, King, Gray, Fletcher can all go. No idea about Kalu as only seen him for 5 mins
    We need a RB, two CB, 2 MF, possibly a GK and maybe a striker
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  11. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Looking at the squad I picked, I think it would be very strong for Championship level, but I've probably picked far too many midfielders. We're bound to use TDB, Asprilla and Zinckernagel as they're doing well on loan. I think Sissoko will go, but I hope we keep Louza and sign Etebo. These players will really be a cut above in the Championship. I'd like to also keep Kucka. So to get down from 10, I think 8 is more realistic. I don't see a place for Quina or Gosling.

    The would give us:-
    Imran Louza, Edo Kayembe, Juraj Kucka, Tom Cleverley, Peter Etebo, Tom Dele-Bashiru, Yaser Asprilla, Philip Zinckernagel (8).

    A total squad size of 31, which still on the large size, but Morris, Angellini & Pollock will be just around the squad for experience. Maybe even loan out Pollock again. So really, that's 28 plus another youngster in Asprilla. I've also included Fletcher, but he may move permanently to the States, which would see a squad of 27, which sounds about right to me.
     
  12. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    I'm really not sure Cleverly has that much left in him anymore. He looks shattered and very leggy in the times he has played this season, made some quite basic mistakes and is not the player he was. Age of course has taken it's toll on him, we need a replacement for him rather than subjecting him to a 46 game season.
     
  13. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    This is an awful blend of players for a midfield in a promotion chasing team. I think we need a minimum of two new starters to come in (three if Louza goes to Udinese which I think is a possibility), people that have character, mobility and leadership, plus a goal threat.

    Kayembe looked good in his first appearance at Newcastle and has looked extremely limited every other time he's been on the pitch. Etebo, promising start but not seen enough of him to say if he's actually an upgrade.

    Kucka and Cleverley will be another season older. No issue with them being in the squad but can't be starting the majority of the games.

    Dele-Bashiru seems to have gone backwards (think he also plays out wide in a front three rather than in the engine room) and Quina has been better in recent months. Asprilla looks like a real talent but can't expect an 18 year old to fly halfway across the world and dominate in the Championship.

    We need a proper defensive midfielder that will screen the back four, put their foot in and disrupt the opposition. And a midfielder that arrives in the box and has a goal threat.

    There's no combination of the above players you've listed that I want playing regularly for us next season.
     
  14. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    The counter point to this is that he's currently being managed by Ince, who even alot of Reading fans think is a piss poor manager
     
  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I appreciate your opinion, however, that does look like a strong enough midfield to me. Clevs is a much better player in the Champ, although I don't see him as a regular starter (unless Roy stays of course). I'm looking at Louza, Kucka, Kayembe and Etebo as being the regular starters, with TDB, Clevs and Asprilla the rotational options. Zinc can be used out wide, or in the pocket behind the striker. For a Championship side, it's pretty strong.

    Inevitably we'll make signings, but I don't see we actually need too much to strengthen us. Maybe a new keeper as well as Okoye, but that's about it. We have enough firepower, the defence was rock solid last time and they're likely to all be around next season, and even though we don't have Will Hughes, I think Louza will take on that role, if we keep him. If we lose Louza, then I agree, we'd need a new midfielder who can hold the ball in tight areas and can pick a pass.
     
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    We need to remember Kayembe has come from a club who might not even be equivalent of Championship. And hasn’t exactly dazzled so far. There’s every chance he’s another dud.
     
  17. ITK platypus

    ITK platypus Squad Player

    This feels like a very important Summer of recruitment which could determine how well the club does for the next decade. I can see it going one of three ways:
    • Our current best young players step up and thrive in the Champo, augmented by some good/fun signings we cruise our way to another second place finish and feel great about our club again (at least for another 12 months).
    • Uninspiring recruitment and overreliance on our existing aging squad sees us limp towards a sixth place finish as attendances slide.
    • We lose our only talented players, get budget replacements and come 14th.
    I'm hoping for the first scenario, but expecting the second. The third is possible but unlikely given our record under the Pozzos in the second tier.

    My fear is that the days of 'fun' signings that make Watford enjoyable to watch are behind us. What are the chances of a raft of Abdis, Vydras and Forestieris landing at London Colney this Summer? I have my doubts.

    Ultimately I just want to care about this team again, if the recruitment can achieve that I will be happy.
     
  18. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Knowing the Pozzos, we get Vydra and Forestieri back, and stick them in the dugout
     
  19. Dorset-Orn

    Dorset-Orn First Year Pro

    You're right.... I was dreaming... You've woke me up.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  20. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Yep, I was saying all summer that we needed those two such players as well for the Prem but we never got them.
     
  21. Dorset-Orn

    Dorset-Orn First Year Pro

    On a side note, one thing I've noticed watching other prem teams, we don't have midfielders that can carry the ball - they are always looking for a killer pass.
    You need a couple of players that can receive the ball and burst forward into space with it - puts the oppo on the back foot and enables team mates to start their runs.
    Our ball carries always seem to be forwards dribbling through a crowded defence and losing the ball every time.
    We need midfielders that are happy with ball at their feet and not desperate to pass it off ASAP...
     
    CarlosKickaballs, RMT79 and põder like this.
  22. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Yeah, Louza is the only midfielder we have even remotely capable of receiving the ball on the turn and playing a progressive pass into forward areas.

    Etebo possibly another, but he doesn’t play for us anymore.
     
  23. HeiaWatford

    HeiaWatford Reservist

    I suppose it's all dependent on the new manager/coach and formation they prefer.
    I tend to like a 3-4-3, 3-5-2.
    Can't see another keeper coming when we already have so many. Okoye and Dahlberg as one and two, Elliott as the 3rd.
    Definitely need one quality CB at the very least but no doubt we will just muddle through with what we have. Kiko and Kamara if they stay would both be decent options in a 5 or 4 midfield/ wingback options. Ngakia and Masina simply not good enough.
    Midfield Louza needs to be kept, then it depends on who returns from their loans. As for the rest they can all do one. But again we know we will keep some of them.
    The more I've looked at Twine from the MK Dons the more I want him. He has an amazing strike on him.
    Can see Sarr, Dennis and possibly Cucho move on maybe even Pedro. It leaves us very short. Always loved Matty Vydra and would have him back in a heartbeat if possible. Someone mentioned Stewart from Sunderland who seems very capable in the air not sure about his all round play though. Ben Brereton has been very good all season but I believe he'll be snapped up by a Premier club if Rovers fail in promotion. But him and Vydra will give us goals without doubt in the Championship. Good thing is there are plenty of very good players out of contract this Summer who we should already be buttering up.
     
  24. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Will we get the lad who went to Udinese from Derby recently?
     
  25. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    A lot of people seem to be banking on or expecting it, but I would be shocked if Kamara is here next season.
     
  26. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The thing is though he'd just lost his place at Nice and was fine with signing for us while we were in a relegation battle with the drop seeming rather likely. He still has another 3 years on his contract from this summer. Unless we had some kind of agreement in place with him when he signed in case we went down, I don't know on what basis we'd sell him.
     
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  27. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Probably loan him to Udinese !
     
  28. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Kamara won't stay.

    We'll be back to Masina once again.
     
  29. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Assuming we lose Dennis and Sarr, the forward line has to be the main priority. I would also look to move Pedro on as has scored about 4 goals in his last 40 games, and he can’t keep getting a bye because he is young. I would look at someone like Adebayo from scum ( if they don’t get promoted) - but he won’t come cheap
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  30. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I actually agree about Pedro. He's talented and enthusiastic without being really effective, and doesn't seem to have an actual position. He's not an out and out striker, he's not a winger, he's not really even a second striker, so what is he and what is he bringing to the table? Doesn't create goals, doesn't score goals, doesn't really do much.

    Think he'll likely go on to have a good career in Spain or Italy, but not sure he's going to make it in the English game and isn't what we need right now.
     
  31. Dorset-Orn

    Dorset-Orn First Year Pro

    I think it's going to be an interesting summer. As people have said we're stuck in a trio of conflicting issues... Will 10 players look to get away or will we only see Sarr, Dennis and 2 others leave.? Secondly will GP be prepared to spend on some well thought out new acquisitions or stay with old ways. Thirdly we could keep 2/3 of the current squad and with a couple of extras have a team for promotion next year, but how would GP look to ready the squad in a year's time for the prem if we get promoted.?
    It almost feels like it's impossible for us to aim for promotion next year if we're going to properly rebuild the squad.
    So many questions to be resolved with a proper long term plan, but not sure GP is able to change his theories on running the club...?
     
  32. Chiswell

    Chiswell Academy Graduate

    I couldn't agree more. We have had neither all season. How on earth was that allowed to happen?
     
  33. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Players I would like to see playing for us next year;
     
  34. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’ve said pretty much this before as well. He looks tidy on the ball and does some nice flicks and passes during a game which leads people to think he’s a good player, the problem is I don’t really know what his position is. He’s absolutely awful at trying to time runs beyond a defensive line, so he’s not a striker, and he doesn’t create goals for others so he’s not a creative midfielder. He probably needed/needs a decent manager who knows what they’re doing to turn him into a specific player, and only play him in that position so he can develop properly and develop the potential we see with the nice flicks and passes into something tangible, but that will never happen with us. He just randomly come into the team here or there and flatter to deceive for the rest of the time he’s with us.
     
    Dorset-Orn and NathWFC like this.
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Just throwing out a question:

    If we could keep one and sell the other two, who are you keeping?

    Dennis, Louza or Kamara?
     

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