Who Stays, Who Goes, Who Needs Signing?

There's absolutely no way Liverpool would be stupid enough to sign Sarr. He's nowhere near good enough for them.

He'll end up somewhere like Villa or Everton, if he even stays in this country. He'll then probably flop.

 

Sarr goes to Italy in lieu of our final payment on Sema. Ken will be an asset in the championship. Other than that the whole squad is retained as now as Gino shows the fans whose in charge.

The forum collapses when Watford hit 86 points before Easter 2023. However another FA Cupsemi final defeat revives interest.

 

Wesley Sneijder could do us a job in the Championship, he's only 37:

 

Sorry, can you show me exactly where this has been confirmed?

I don't actually think it's as impossible as you seem to that a right footed player could play on the right wing, if I'm honest, but regardless, I said he'd join the ranks of their attacking players, adding a further one to a finite bunch, not that he was exactly the same player as Sarr in the same position and that he would be guaranteed to be Liverpool's new right winger upon joining.

 

Fun as it is, the Championship is a **** league, we got automatic promotion last time whilst rarely playing that well.

Squad has some pretty massive issues that need addressing, the main one being a horrible midfield where no combination works in the slightest.

Okoye is obviously coming in as first choice, be interesting to see what we do about a second, with Rob Gilmartin Elliott nailed on for third choice.

Centre backs having long been a problem area is one we're pretty well stocked for the Championship with the lower quality forwards we'd be facing. Similarly, if we kept the same four options as full backs, I'd be ok with that but suspect that Kiko will be off so we'll need a new first choice there.

Our central midfield options are, for the most part, rancid. Think it'll be Louza's turn to be held hostage like Sarr was last time. Not convinced by any of the others, think we need two new players alongside him, preferably with some Championship know how, leadership, goal threat and the ability to take a set piece. The rest can fight it out for back up squad slots. We cannot go into a 46 game season with a whole midfield whose legs have gone. Reckon Sissoko will head off for a final payday somewhere in a crap league. Asprilla looks a talent but you can't chuck an 18 year old from the Colombian league straight into the Championship.

Cucho had a great time in the Spanish second tier and could see him doing likewise for us, not really good enough at the top level but reckon he'll be decent dropping down. King won't be picked up by another Premier League team after this season so reckon he'll stay. Fletcher is the kind of footballer that will make things happen in the Championship despite not really being either a target man or having much technique. Pedro did get 9 last time around in the Championship so would hope he could up it to 15 with a couple more years experience.

Some combo of Baah, Zinckernagel, old man Kalu as the other attacking options to rotate in and out. Think we'd need another one, wouldn't be wanting to rely on Quina and Dele-Bashiru.

I think you could fashion a very capable squad with just 3-4 quality additions (right back if Kiko goes, two new centre mids and another attacker) that won't break the bank but suspect we'll be lining up with Comedy King Ken, Cleverley and Gosling on the opening day.

 

Okoye; New RB, Kabasele, Sierrelta, Kamara; Louza, New, New; Pedro, New & Cucho.

Wouldn’t be mad at Samir, Zinc, TDB, Quina, Kalu, Kucka, Fletcher all being part of the 23.

Unfortunately can also see Masina, Cathcart, Clevs & Gosling being part of the squad too.

Also wouldn’t mind going 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1 with Pedro and Cucho playing much closer together in a pairing, think it’ll take too much change though given the squad we have.

 

From 7th April in The Guardian:

"Liverpool have finalised a deal for Fabio Carvalho that will take the exciting winger from Fulham for £5m plus add-ons in the summer, ending a chase the club failed to complete on deadline day of the most recent transfer window."

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...al-to-sign-fabio-carvalho-from-fulham-for-48m

It only ever really happens nowadays if they're absolutely rapid like Sarr (or Adam Traore) and so can beat the full-back running on the outside (and even then it's not so well suited to the modern game and the typical 433 most teams play). Carvalho is not that kind of player.

 

Presumably we'll make Pussetto's move back to Udinese permanent and get a few bob from them this summer that we can then immediately borrow against at a high interest rate?

 

Flum or Muff might be interested in taking Sarr from us for £15-20m.

 

Anyone half decent will leave - unless we’re paying them top wages, then they’ll stay but refuse to play.

Even some players that haven’t set the world alight here (eg Louza, Cucho) have probably done enough previously in other top leagues that they will get a move.

2 years ago I was probably the most pessimistic about the squad we’d be left with, but I think if it weren’t for Covid I’d have been right. This time we won’t have any such reprieve.

 

I would keep anyone that has some development left in them and that wants to stay and bin the rest. I know this will leave us with only 5 or 6 players but so be it.

 

I don’t care…I really don’t. Everything that’s been said on this thread makes sense. But you just know pozzo will bring in 3 goalkeepers, 2 left mids and 4 rising stars from the Albanian league who we won’t ever see. And we will start with Cathcart, Gosling and Cleverley

 

If we had managed to stay up they’d have been playing in the PL for us next season instead…

 

I agree that 3 or 4 players could make us a decent bunch, there's something stopping a lot of our players from jelling properly.
CB, CM and striker are 3 key positions we have to improve...

 

Sarr will surely end up at a mid-table club with loads of money like Newcastle or maybe even Villa.

 

Three days ago Silva was still talking about it as a possibility, however unlikely that is or isn't: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...marco-silva-fabio-carvalho-liverpool-23697158

And fundamentally, it has not been announced by either club or the player himself, so no, it hasn't been confirmed, and certainly not enough to explain why you felt the need to instantly wade in to 'correct' me in your patented blunt autist fashion when what I said was 'very strong talk that they've agreed/are in the process of agreeing a deal'.

 

Probably just doesn't want the distraction.

Come back to me in the summer if he doesn't join them. I won't hold my breath.

 

I bloody hope not.
What an awful squad and £150+ million in debt.
Terrible Centre back situation, all rubbish.
Ngakia is as nervous as hell when the ball goes near him.
Only Louza shows potential.
Christ! It is going to be very long hard Championship season.

 

Sell the obvious ones (Sarr and Dennis), release the other obvious ones (Cathcart, Kabasele Foster, Cleverley, Kucka, Nkoulou - who almost certainly won't stay, Rose) cut losses on some of the dross (Kayembe, Bachmann, WTE, Samir maybe, Ngakia, Masina, Sema, Gosling, Fletcher) and bank some of the money.

Try and get Doig (Hibs), Ramsay and Ferguson (Aberdeen) at last and find a half-decent striker and a competent, dominant British CB. I'd like Joe Worrall but reckon thats a pipe-dream now. I'd hope to get Etebo too but something odd is happening there...

If we could build something like:
GKS - Okoye, Dahlberg, Angelini

RB - Calvin Ramsay, Femenia
LB - Kamara, Doig
CB - Sierralta, Pollock, Samir (?), Nkoulou (?) and 1x new starting CB and 1x young CB

CM - Etebo, Sissoko, Louza, Ferguson, Asprilla
RW - Kalu, Zinckernagel, Baah
LW - Cucho, Joao Pedro
(some of the above are interchangeable in positions)

FW - King, Cucho/Joao Pedro, 1 x new starting striker

That squad with a few more signings (Think winger, striker and CB would be light in quality and in need of more), and most importantly lead by a young, progressive coach with faith put into him - and thats something we can all get behind and expect good, if perhaps not immediate, things from.

But if the club want to call it a 'reset', then thats what it needs to be - a TOTAL reset. Not messing around with the edges and keeping the core the same. A huge clearcut is needed of the names given in my first paragraph.

Will it happen? Of course it won't.

 

Out of contract + released:

Foster
N'Koulou
Gray

Sell:

Rose - not sure who'd take him but if we can't find someone offer a contract termination so we can hopefully save a little bit of money on his wages.
Sarr - can see him joining Newcastle, hopefully for 20-25m
Pussetto - 2 years left on his contract, will probably never play for us again, shift him to Udinese for £4m or so.
Troost-Ekong - lots of rumours about him moving to MLS, still has a month left of their window so might even depart sooner than the summer. Could probably get £2-3m for him.
Penaranda - Time at the club is surely up, has another year left on his contract, no idea what we'd get for him but may as well get something back for him.
Dennis - Would probably smash the Championship but imagine he won't want to play in the Champ, imagine we could get £10m for him.
Fletcher - I wouldn't be against keeping him in the Champ, but his loan has an option to buy clause apparently so depends on how he does in MLS whether he'll be returning or not.
Femenia - Not sure why (i'd keep him) but I just have a feeling he'll be off this summer
King - Has never wanted to play in the Champ, doubt he'd want to now, although wouldn't mind keeping him if the wages are manageable
Quina - Time at the club is up I feel, but wouldn't be surprised if he got another loan.

Loan:

Baah - We haven't seen any of him this season, and he last played in L1. I don't think he's even played for the U23s. Needs to go play.
Pollock - Probably good enough to be an option off the bench for us, but feel another loan would suit him better
Dahlberg - Might be used as a number 2 if Bachmann departs, but I don't feel like he's done enough on loan to warrant it.
Sema - Can't imagine we'll get any money for him with a year left on his contract, but loan him out and hope someone pays most of his wages.

I realise there's a hell of a lot of outgoings here and I'd be surprised if we did actually get rid of that many - this is just what I feel we need to do.


Goalkeepers:

Okoye
Bachmann (or new GK)
Elliot

Not sure who'd be number 1 out of Bachmann/Okoye but they'd be a very capable duo to have - provided Bachmann wants to stay (which I doubt). Otherwise we'll need a new deputy for Okoye

Centre-Backs:

Cathcart
Kabasele
Sierralta
Samir

Not sure whether Samir will want to play in the Championship and wouldn't be surprised if he got a loan back to Udinese for the season so would probably need another CB

Full-Backs:

Masina
Ngakia
Kamara

Would need a new RB if Kiko leaves, imagine that will be Festy Ebosele.

Central Midfield:

Cleverley
Kucka
Gosling
Sissoko
Phillips
Kayembe
Louza
Dele-Bashiru

Wouldn't be surprised to see Sissoko leave, although not sure who'd pay money for him. Dele-Bashiru has had a mixed season but I think his skillset better suits a good team rather than one battling relegation, so could offer something. Phillips has also had a mixed season, he's played well but his discipline has let him down, but he adds a bit of tenacity and bite that could be useful. Louza I'd like to keep but also wouldn't be surprised if he left. There's some interesting midfielders that are out of contract in the Championship that might be useful (Swift, Seri, Powell)

Forwards

Cucho
Kalu
Pedro
Zinckernagel
Asprilla
Hungbo

Don't understand why people don't wanna keep Pedro - all his metrics are above the average for his position in the PL and got 9 goals in his first proper season in the Championship last time round, will hopefully be a key player. Same with Cucho, he scored 16 goals in the Spanish 2nd division at 18 years old and has been playing in the top flight for the last 4 seasons, hopefully he's learnt and added to his game and will be a constant source of goals. Zinckernagel has now done well for 2 promotion chasing teams in the Championship and has 17 goals/assists in the equivalent of 37 full games so can certainly offer something to the team. Hungbo has done alright on loan but I still want him to dominate games a little bit more, 7 goals (3 penalties) and 3 assists isn't a bad return at all though. Asprilla + Kalu are somewhat unknown entities, wouldn't surprise me to see one of Asprilla or Hungbo go out on loan with one retained. I do feel we might need another striker if King and Fletcher both leave.

 

I think we'll go for a partial reset this season with some players leaving, then go for the bigger reset the season after next as we have a huge amount of players out of contract in summer 2023 (Clevs, Elliot, Gosling, Sissoko, Rose, Cathcart, King, Sema, Masina)

 

Possibly, in fact - likely.

But that’s a lot of money on wages for 12 months for those who shouldn’t have a part to play, even with a 50% pay cut. They should all be told they are free to leave this summer at least (I’d keep Sissoko personally).

But I do agree any revolution wont just happen in one summer - but over 2, maybe longer.

But I don’t see how we can bring in a long-term coach, with a wider remit, and keep many of these players around.

 

Yeah, I imagine the big earners (King, Sissoko and maybe Sema + Rose if we can offload them) will be off this summer, with the rest staying.

 

But again - no one said he isn't going to join them, least of all me. If you read my original comment, or indeed the subsequent reply, where I repeated it, I said there was ''very strong talk that they've agreed/are in the process of agreeing a deal'.

My objection was never to how likely Carvalho is to join Liverpool or not, as well you know - it was to the strange and unnecessary manner of your interaction. You 'corrected' me in a weird, smug manner, by making a claim that was itself incorrect, and are now refusing to acknowledge it by trying to reframe my original position.

Ironically, given your objection to it, holding your breath might occasionally serve you quite well.

 

You'd think so and I suppose his agent will advise him to stick in the PL because of the money, but I now doubt he's best suited to England. I suspect he would be much more contented (and probably effective) playing in France.

 

As sensible as that sounds, if it coincides with us promoted back to the PL (which of course will be the aim), then it would be very difficult and expensive to put together a squad capable of surviving if lots of players need replacing.

 

My claim was not incorrect.

The Athletic have also reported on it being a done deal - there's no ifs/buts/maybes/"in the process of", they have also reported it conclusively as already being done.

"Liverpool have agreed a deal to bring Fabio Carvalho to Anfield in the summer for £5 million plus add-ons. [...]
Carvalho has already agreed personal terms with Liverpool and completed a medical. The agreement means he will join Liverpool on July 1 for an initial fee of £5 million. Liverpool have agreed to a 20 per cent sell-on fee and a further £2.7 million in add-ons."

https://theathletic.com/news/liverp...valho-from-fulham-in-the-summer/8eZAlA9haxn8/

The Guardian and Athletic sports sections are both pretty reputable when it comes to such things - if they both say conclusively it's already done then there's no reason for you or I to doubt it.

Silva is clearly just deflecting for the sake of fan and team morale.

 

That was definitely the orthodoxy about squad churn/a lot of players leaving at once but I think Palace’s experience this season with a bunch of their decent but elderly squad players leaving at once and then replaced by exciting up and coming players shows that that kind of rebuild can be a real opportunity. Suddenly there is considerably more headroom with the wage bill which can be put to the resources the team needs at that moment in time. But it’s definitely risky.

A bunch of Burnley’s over 30s are out of contract this summer. I wonder how they’ll handle it but they definitely won’t be fishing in the same pool of replacements if they go down as they would be otherwise.

 

I like it but don’t see how we can afford to pay off Cleverly, Kucka, Kabasele and Cathcart. From a cash flow perspective as much as anything else, so they will be squad options. I guess it’s not too bad as long as we aren’t building the team around them and we don’t give anymore extensions.

 

Which all tallies very well with what I said, in my initial comment which, apparently for your required benefit, for the umpteenth time, was 'very strong talk that they've agreed/are in the process of agreeing a deal'

(The initial point of that comment in reply to another poster, indeed, expressly being that Carvalho was likely to be joining Liverpool).

Has the move been confirmed? Once again, no - it has not.

 

Yeah I know. But they should be made available for anyone that could possibly ever want them.

Kucka will be a struggle to offload at his age - but we could theoretically get someone to take the others on free deals if they were told they have no future.

Give them the Hughes/Chalobah treatment. Maybe some of them have been here long enough to deserve better treatment - but we have to be ruthless.

 

It doesn’t really matter, all the players out of contract in 23 are useless at PL level and wouldn’t keep us up, so we’ll be in a no worse position whatever we do as an alternative.

 

GK--Okoye and a cheap backup (Elliot can **** off and all, the fat *******), expect Foster and Bachmann to leave. Loan out Dahlberg to a top end L1 or bottom/mid table Champo team

RB--Let Ngakia and hopefully Ebosele battle it out, Femenia can move on to some Spanish team
CB--Let Kabasele go back to Belgium or something, reckon Samir goes back to Udinese, keep last season's partnership which served us so well, Cathcart (I don't suppose anyone would want him, but anyway, he's homegrown, can cover at RB and could probably do a job at Championship level for another season) and sign one more player, loaning Pollock out to a top end L1 or bottom/mid table Championship team
LB--Reckon Kamara goes, but regardless, keep Masina as he's at least useful at Championship level, and sign another LB if necessary

CM--Ideally, let Louza, Kayembe, TDB, Zinck and Etebo battle it out, with Kucka as an emergency backup/sub, but we're probably not going to sign Etebo, Louza may well be sold, and we're keeping Clev (OK, maybe he might have one more Championship season in him) and Gosling (ffs). Loan out Phillips, sell Quina for whatever we can, if we need to, get some geezer of Udinese too

Forwards--Try to keep Cucho and JP (probably depends on how much we sell Sarr and Dennis for, and whether we get any other money for the players listed above), have a look at what Kalu can do, keep Sema as a backup option. Get rid of King as he was **** for Bournemouth in the Championship, would leave us short on genuine strikers, but Vydra is available on a free...

 

I’ll tell you now - that squad isn’t getting promoted.