Watford Fc 0-2 Millwall - 26/12/2022

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by SkylaRose, Dec 20, 2022.

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Let's Play A Game...

Poll closed Dec 27, 2022.
  1. Hornets Buzzing

    34 vote(s)
    54.0%
  2. Lions Roaring

    15 vote(s)
    23.8%
  3. Draw of a Kind

    10 vote(s)
    15.9%
  4. Micah Hyde vs Blackburn 00/01

    4 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Still recovering from yesterday tbh, 80 minutes of turgid football followed by too many pigs in blankets and Bailey's. But nice to see all the family. How's yours?
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  2. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    And Duxbury's lie was...? Or have you now realised it was an article, not a direct quote?

    I would love it if the system was how it used to be, and it was worth the effort/money to commit to our academy, and enjoy the rewards whilst also competing at the level we've been at for the last decade. Sadly, that's not how it works anymore.

    As I said, if we fall to Millwall's level, we'll probably see some O'Nien's/Hungbo's given a more prolonged chance, and some will probably develop to decent Championship players.
     
  3. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    All good. About to order family Chinese.
     
  4. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I didn’t think it was a direct quote but it can’t have been far off what was as it’s clearly what is suggested (based on the journalist and those who attended the meeting suggested) and as you’ve described, they’ve included academy players this season who aren’t apparently good enough. Incompetence leading from attempting to placate.

    I think it could still work in a way that works but it would now take 10 years to get it to a decent level and the ROI isn’t comparable to casting a net over Brazil and selling at a decent profit every 5 years. So you’re definitely right, it certainly doesn’t work like that - for us - anymore. For now.
     
  5. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    OK, this part, I certainly don't comprehend. How can you have 'too many pigs in blankets?'
     
  6. Whatever8

    Whatever8 Academy Graduate

    We've (Millwall) been rubbish with our academy over the last 10 years as well. Any decent youngster with with reputation has been swept up by Chelsea/Man city/Liverpool and most recently Rangers... when they are 15/16 years old....

    I used the adjective lucky just to show that Billy Mitchell came out of nowhere. He started off as nothing special, but the last 12 months at only 21 years old is always having a positive impact on the match. Some of his passing yesterday was great as well, he was instrumental against Preston in our 4-2 away win.

    I don't see the academy as a long term strategy as we lost Zak Lovelace last August to Rangers for peanuts. Any good youngster goes to a top Prem club and the compensation isn't worth the investment.

    I think signing players like Zian Flemming (aka Brentford strategy) is the way forward for clubs like ourselves. Signing foreign youngsters cheaper before selling them onwards for a hefty profit to reinvest.

    I expect us to sell him next year for £10million +, already 10 goals, missed first 6 games of season, not an out and out striker, doesn't take penalties .

    What I badly explained in my original post, we are a decent team this year, any team that finishes above us will more than likely be in the top 6. We battered Sunderland away in first half but couldn't find the opener... we could have been 3 nil up in the first half there. Amad Diallo (on loan from Man United) came out second half and turned it around. 3-0 massively flattered them.

    He's probably one of the best players in the league right now. (Amad Diallo).

    Good luck for the rest of the season. I imagine when you're players aren't so hungover from Xmas, that they will click and pick up enough wins over the course of the season to finish around the playoffs if not inside them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
  7. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    I didn’t realise Baileys was open on Boxing Day!
     
    Carpster and wfcmoog like this.
  8. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Do you have an air fryer?
     
  9. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    That's what I said to the family members who angrily confronted me when they discovered they were all gone
     
  10. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Thank you for your insight :)
     
  11. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Surely that would make him Mummy Pozzo ?
     
  12. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    When it's impossible to stop all your best prospects getting nicked for peanuts there is no clear route to making it work and no way you can estimate achieving any kind of return on investment whatsoever. The club could easily pump millions more in to the academy for exactly the same non result as now.
     
  13. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I meant he went complaining to Gino’s father to get his job back like a child might complain to their mum to get their way - well that was the allegation.

    Then Pozzo Snr told Gino to give CG his job back.
     
    a19tgg and BigRossLittleRoss like this.
  14. Bunny

    Bunny Academy Graduate

    Ours (Millwall) also get snatched up too… SE London is a huge conveyer belt of talent. Indeed, Liverpool and Manchester City have hoovered up a few of ours in recent years. In fact, we made a nice profit from the transfer of Samuel Edozie from City to Southampton in the summer. And people forget that Rio Ferdinand was poached from us by West Ham.

    Anyways, we do manage to keep hold of the youth players that do not shine quite as bright as the ones harvested by City, Liverpool etc. and give them their opportunities to become first team players.

    I believe that being able to bring through the likes of Tony Craig, Alan Dunne and now Billy Mitchell and Danny McNamara has really benefitted the club. Three of those are from Millwall supporting families and you can really see that in their performances. All of them give every last bit of blood, sweat and tears for the club and you can’t buy that sort of thing.

    I think having those kind of homegrown players in the team has helped Millwall punch above their weight in the expensive foreign/spoilt ex big club academy player mercenary era. Imo
     
  15. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Yes that is true but it’s a shame we literally have none who can fill the bench in an injury crisis apart from Morris and Hungbo and they aren’t really from our youth system .

    I accept and the club will do as well that it’s not like the past when you could throw someone in for a game as our expectations are different now and as you say anyone with potential is snapped up ASAP.

    I am not sure a young player would be given a chance to settle in by manager or fans these days either .
     
  16. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I mentioned this above - pretty much our only hope of bringing a player through is if one of our better prospects happens to also be a Watford fan. Otherwise they have little reason not to jump to Spurs/Arsenal etc.

    It'll be the same with you and all the other London clubs on your doorstep, hence it's no surprise whatsoever that of the few players you've brought through they're mostly also Millwall fans (because if they were any good and not Millwall fans they'd also have not stuck around).
     
  17. Chewitt

    Chewitt Forum Extraordinaire

    I completely understand & agree with this, an unfortunate side effect of the desire for instant success or a return to the “promised land”.

    However, once the gems have been picked off by the big boys, to then have absolutely nothing left whatsoever in terms of ability just seems negligible to me.

    I’m no academy system expert but surely there’s something in between those being nabbed and those destined for obscurity?!
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  18. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Even at an academy like Spurs you might only get 1 player per year group good enough to play to some degree in their first team, then maybe 1 or 2 at lower PL/upper Champ level. And if anything that's being generous.

    So even in Spurs' academy the vast majority of players each year are unlikely to even be good enough for a club like Watford's first team - so they'll always have room to nick anyone who seems like they might have a chance of making it to that level. 70% of players at Category One academies are never even handed a professional contract - whether at a PL or even a lower Football League club.

    So for a club like Watford to find and keep a player good enough for its first team who Spurs/Arsenal whoever else haven't been able to make room for in their own academy, just isn't likely.

    As I mentioned before, they'd probably have to be Watford fans, or perhaps have a completely unexpected rapid improvement in their level of ability at around 17-18 after Watford have already been able to offer first pro terms.

    https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...y-players-figures-appearances-numbers-1387302
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
  19. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    Bleh. Some further thoughts following the game.

    I do have to sympathise with Bilic's personnel selection problems even if the attitude was still unacceptable. Our current injury list is Hause (Who?), Cleverley, Gosling, Louza, Kayembe, Choudhury, Pedro and Manaj (oh no). Of these, Louza, Choudhury and Pedro were completely unpreventable contact injuries whilst Cleverley and Gosling seemed to be a case of bad luck as well. Manaj seemed to be a risk that failed.

    Our best line-up would involve Pedro, Louza and Choudhury at least but missing almost every central midfield option would make any manager's life incredibly hard and just highlights the neglect of the academy to produce any players of remote standard. A fit Hause I would wager also gets into the starting XI.

    It does not forgive the attitude displayed. But it does absolve some of the disjointed link-up play.
     
    HornM25 likes this.
  20. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I agree up to a point.
    What nobody can explain is the catalogue of misplaced passes,step forward Ngakia,that found a blue shirt or touch.
    As we play "walking football" to borrow ETG's phrase,most if not all of these are unforgivable.
    Our failure to adhere to basics,from scouting and recruiting clearly unfit/injured players to being able to control a sphere are longer than the Maastricht Treaty and no area of the club is untainted.
     
  21. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Louza and now Pedro, have both been done by Millwall, or have I got that wrong?
     
  22. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    To steal a joke from Gary Delaney, I assume you mean the in-laws in the spare room?
     
  23. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Don't think it's any coincidence that the ones from our academy that have carved out decent careers were those that seemed more mature and articulate at a young age (e.g. Hoban, O'Nien, Byers). Strongly suspect that they all responded better to coaching and were able to remain grounded and keep working hard realising they hadn't yet made it. Perhaps the way forward might be to keep more of this type of player as they are more likely to flourish later and improve?
     
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  24. Where's Wally

    Where's Wally Academy Graduate

    Spot on and both out for very lengthy periods, Pedro may miss a large chunk of the remaining games especially given our medical teams pedigree.
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Haven’t seen the Davis potential penalty again but not many really appealed and given he didn’t get one last week either maybe like Sarr has a reputation for going down easily ?

    Ofcourse if we think the refs are against us (Pedro will be targeted unfortunately- particularly if he has a prior injury) then we don’t need players giving them any opportunity to send someone off ..

    https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/23215271.bilic-brands-kamara-reckless-unhappy-decisions/
     
  26. V Crabro

    V Crabro Reservist

    We were one of the top 44 clubs in the country when the Pozzo era began 10 years ago
     
  27. NemoNemo

    NemoNemo Reservist

    Having played over half the season it’s frustrating that we still have a squad lacking in depth. There is an abundance of cheap talent available in the championship and instead of utilising this, the recruitment would rather waste their time on foreign misfits, injury risks and journey men. Add to this the priority to bring in youth from South America that is not going to help the team in the present fight and may or may not become a success.
    Someone mentioned Jake cooper and he is someone who I have been a fan of since his Reading days. A decent championship defender will not cost millions & millions but the utter ignorance we have shown this area of our squad for a decade is shocking. Cathcart and Kabasele started at Millwall… let that sink in for a minute
     
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  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Hause is fit. He just has very little interest in playing for us.
     
  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Why !

    Can we cancel the loan then or Bilic should say he just isn’t being selected.
     
  30. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    We'll probably make Hause permanent, get that guy on a 5 year deal ASAP.
     
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    What does Bilic gain by saying it? No point burning bridges with Villa over it. Especially if we perhaps still have an eye on Cameron Archer.

    And the loan is very, very likely to get cancelled in early-January (if allowed).
     
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  32. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    Was it due to the manager change? Or more fundamental?
     
  33. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Is this a new Christmas cocktail? Is it blended or do you garnish the glass with said pig in blanket?
     
  34. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Why?
     
  35. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Guess so - don’t want to upset another club as you say !
     
    Ilkley likes this.

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