Valerien Ismael - Manager

So on balance, there are some positives of this appointment .

He knows the championship and has had relative success in it
He likes to play a high energy high pressing game ( which Is the antithesis of this season and would be very welcome )
It looks like Manga has had a big input in the appointment
He has a full pre season for us to recruit what he needs and to get his style across .

Given we are a mid table championship side , could we have done much better ?

If Manga can provide the type of players he needs , plus a few gems to provide the magic dust ( of which we already have some ) the outlook could be quite positive .

I am still concerned by how short his managerial durations seem to be as i still would like us to be looking more long term in our appointments .

I would like to see us pushing for promotion again next season .But given how many on here seem
To think we are Heading for league 1 then would a mind table finish be seen by them as success ?

 

When I was at school, and just discovering music, my friend was selling some of his records to raise money for a guitar. One of the was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
As I only owned 1 album at the time (Dark Side of the Moon, obviously), I was excited about buying Lamb as it was a double album so I could claim I had 3 records.
It was so monumentally dull I never did manage to get to the end of it, and hated Genesis ever since.

 

Well he hardly made a difference when he returned imo. To me he is a luxury player that I can't see fitting into Ismael's thinking. I believe he will be off anyway.

 

Perhaps Edwards will whisk him off to the prem in the summer ?

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Not the best introduction to them, I’d agree.

 

Is he tall?

If so it's a tactical clue, we may be implementing a high Prass next season.

 

The guys at WD18 have done a video interviewing a West Brom and Barnsley fan to get their insights into our new boss. It's well worth a watch.

Link:

 

Quite depressing stuff. I expected a downbeat take from a West Brom fan, but not from the Barnsley fan. He was just as dismissive of him, even though they did well under him.

On a positive he tended to get results. West Brom were 5th when they sacked him and Barnsley were also 5th when West Brom took him.

They did say there were some exciting games and if their opponent was not ready from the off they could get blown away. But VI’s teams tended to get worked out by the opposition and he has no plan B.

He falls out with players regularly and taking a red card seems to be a badge of honour with his teams. One said “he could have an argument in an empty room”. (I know a few like that on this forum).

They said Alex Mowett is his player and he runs through brick walls for him. Expect us to be in for Mowett after Boro’s playoff campaign.

The style of play is something neither fan liked. Charlie even had to make a comment near the end saying it’s a Watford podcast, is there any positives you could mention.

They said you won’t need a midfield as that’s completely bypassed. I suspect Louza could well be off if that’s the case.

Basically it was a very bleak analysis overall.

I think the way it’s going to pan out with Ismael, is that we’ll start off well but then it will spectacularly come off the rails. My concern is, we’ll need a coach of a similar style as his football method is so extreme, you need specific players to make it work. These players could quickly become surplus if Ismael goes.

Even though I was on board with the appointment I think we’ve taken a huge risk with VI. He’s an extreme coach who seems volatile, hence why he’s never stayed too long in any one job.

 

It’s a thoroughly depressing appointment. We all know it, but to their credit some are putting on brave faces which is admirable. Most of us just have a horrible feeling inside, because there is literally nothing about this to be optimistic about.

Manga had terrific success in Germany and could well turn out to be a terrific appointment for us, but I wish he’d realise this is the English Championship, rather than him still working in Germany. His shortlist of coaches was very depressing for this reason. Why should having any experience of working in Germany be the qualifying requirement to make that shortlist?

It’s a similar story so far with his number two. She’s identified Portugal as her main market for signings. And the result? Two players who were both a waste of the January window. One totally unsuitable for the rigours of an English league, the other looked ok in fairness but was too often injured.

Our thinking still seems to be way too narrow. I’ve never looked forward less to a new season already. We had a chance to make a really exciting appointment last week and instead we went for this behemoth, disliked by fans of the clubs he’s worked at here, disliked by players and disliked by football purists too. So disappointing.

 

I don't think it's a question of him being hated by all. Clearly there a players who love working with him. The trick is signing those players. I doubt many of our current squad could survive him, so we do need to have a major overhaul. It's vital that happens, or else, as you say, he'll not last pre-season.

From what I've heard he doesn't like technically gifted players. But what I think that means, is technically gifted players who are fundamentally lazy, or need a rocket up the backside to perform. I'm sure he'd have loved Pedro, for example, as he is not only technically excellent, he's got that bit of spice to his game. A little bit of nasty, which is what Ismael likes.

So I'm not sure where that leaves Louza and Asprilla. If the midfield is largely bypassed, then these players could be at risk, although I certainly hope not, as you do need quality as well as workhorses.

There are advantages and disadvantages of hiring someone like Ismael. The advantages are, he tends to value character over quality, which aligns with Manga's thinking. Now this type of player is probably cheaper to sign. Old fashioned footballers, are not in vogue, but they are still around, mainly kicking around in the lower leagues (Sunday morning footballers). You can quickly stock up on this type of player without busting the budget. This is what I think the club were thinking. They probably had a blue sky session and asked, how do we create an effective football team on a shoestring.

You play a system that no one else is using and you have players who are committed and determined. What system could that be? Route-one is the cheapest and most effective. I believe there is a lot of snobbery in football, and I've never been a fan of playing it around the back. All the risk is with you when you play around the backline with a team that's pressing you. One well-timed tackle and your opponent is in one v one. At least we'll not be doing that anymore.

The disadvantages are getting players to buy into it. Our current squad will not, so we need to sign a hell of a lot of players to make this work. Another thing is, we will have to go all in on this guy, but what if it doesn't work? What then, we sack him and are left with players who are only really suitable to him. I think the risks far outweigh the rewards right now. I think it's more likely to fail than succeed, but I can see it could work, but we really have to be totally committed to it. I just don't see the patience within the board for this extreme style of football. Fans will quickly become disillusioned if hoof-ball doesn't produce good results.

 

Depressing stuff....

 

Would like to think that a club who, while we've had a bad season, are starting from a higher starting point than Barnsley, might not quite be as purely direct as they were. As for his inflexibility, how much of that is down to the players available to him? Besides, I think you could say most managers are 'inflexible', 'flexibility' in and of itself isn't a virtue, we played a few different formations with Wilder, and even with Edwards, but none of them really worked

 

I have no idea if Asprilla is best suited to this style of football, or indeed any style of football we're going to attempt while he is what he is and while we're in the Championship, but it's not as if Ismael played exactly the same way at each club he's been at, even managers with a defined style tend to tweak their style a little bit to the players already at the club

 

I would say nothing worked with other head coaches because basically we’ve got a rotten crop of players. One or two might have some ambition, but the majority just want to trot through their career picking up a massive wage so they can enjoy their life outside of football. That’s my impression anyway.

This has been mainly down to recruitment over the past 4 years. We’ve signed players without purpose, apart from flipping a profit here or there. There has been no direction or thought given to character whatsoever, which has left us where we are now.

We need to change and change in a dramatic way. My concern with the guy we’ve appointed is he’s very niche. I wouldn’t say he’s inflexible, but he’s got a style which is extreme. Maybe he’s evolved a little since his stint in England previously and is open to adopting his principles over the squad we have. Not every player will be surplus, but I’m scratching my head as to how many he could use in his system, unless he’s evolved it.

He needs CB’s who are strong in the air. Well we’ve only got Sierralta who is good at that. I’d give Ferreira and Andrews a crack at playing the wingback/winger role, but I couldn’t see Caspar, Ngakia or Morris doing it. Midfield has to make use of Louza and Asprilla, but I see little use for them under Ismael.

Sarr could fit into the style but is not industrious enough and is likely to go anyway. Sema would be a good fit, but our other wider players are either not hard working enough or too injury prone.,

Target man could be Britt, but how many games could you get out of him, and would he really be your number one choice? No other striker on out books could fill the role either.

Sweeper keeper is a must, so that makes Bachmann and Okoye redundant. Only Hamer could probably play that game, but he’s third choice for a reason.

So there’s plenty to do with the squad, before we can even be considered remotely competitive.

 

If used well in the correct system I think he's a great player. Probably the one player in the squad I'd love to see stay (now Pedro has gone)

 

Roles for such as Louza and Asprilla may depend on how VI expects the more direct style to work. If it is mainly for the wide players to create chances for 2 strikers, then there would be little place for them. However if the idea is for the initial forward passes to hit a target man who will be expected to release an attacking midfielder to burst beyond him, then that would suit Louza in particular.
And there would still be opportunities to release the wide players if the opposition became over committed to countering our AM.

However, either approach would require a much higher quality striker than we currently possess.

 

I've been pondering Louza's best position (with us) and tend to agree that he would best be suited to a nbr 10. He has the skill but badly lacking in strength. Maybe CM with a tough guy beside him but considering how poor our attack has been I think louza at 10 could work well...
I'd also fancy Asprilia at 10 - give him a free rein...

 

I always get the impression Louza wants to play the deep quarterback role, but he’s not as good at it as Will Hughes was because he’s not as industrious, particularly for the Championship.

 

Speaking of Will Hughes, bring him back. Never happening, but I miss seeing him run around making some Paul Scholesesque tackles in the middle of the pitch. Still think the way we treated him, was another monumental contributor to our downfall.

 

There was talk in January if I remember correctly. He's had limited miniutes at Palace but don't think he would drop a divison now.

 

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned but he has somewhat of a Klingon look about him.

 

He’ll do well to Klingon to his job after a couple of defeats.

 

There was one phase last season when Louza received nothing but praise from the fans on here - obviously his best position. That was when he was out injured. He never deserved that praise either before or after his injury.

 

I'm feeling quite positive about Ismael.

I'm positive he's a woeful appointment and I'm positive he'll be gone by November. I'm also positive we're going to be in a relegation battle this season.

 

For you, that IS extremely positive (no way he lasts until November)

 

The owners shot themselves in both feet there.