Ukraine - Catalyst For Ww3

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by AndrewH63, Feb 11, 2022.

  1. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Of course it won't be an invasion; they are so passe....it will be a 'special military operation.'
     
  2. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    B'stards are using weapons not approved by the Geneva convention.
     
  3. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Ah yes, "Ethnic Cleansing 2: Even More Cleansed". The sequel no one wanted.
     
  4. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    From Sky News.

    327C14B0-AF57-4041-A8E7-5E8CB230B768.jpeg
     
  5. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    From Sky News. I’m no nuclear expert, but this would appear highly dangerous.

    BF1440ED-DCFC-48A4-A382-64DF33CB61B0.jpeg
     
  6. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    That's all well and good, Moose, but what about the issue of the presence of self-checkouts in the Ukrainian supermarkets? Surely that's what is really important here.
     
  7. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  8. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  9. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  10. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Screenshot 2022-08-18 at 20-13-55 Jason Jay Smart on Twitter.png

    https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1560226904623534083

    As an aside, my mum took my littlest and my niece out to some ice cream place near Arkley last weekend. My son was wearing his "Иди на хуй..." t-shirt showing solidarity with our Ruthenian comrades and the Mad Hatter and Alice Liddle there (both played by Ukrainian actors) made certain that all three were so stuffed with free ice-cream that they were all sick before they go into the car to go home.

    Слава Україні!
     
  11. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  12. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Send your message to the Russian Invaders!
    You have a chance to kill orcs with your text written on an artillery shell that will be fired at Russian soldiers.
    You will receive a photo of your signed shell or a video of it being fired. Or you can even sign a T-72 tank.
     
  13. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

  14. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Darya Dugina, the daughter of a Putin ally, has been assassinated in Moscow by a car bomb. It is speculated that the bomb was intended for her father, ‘philosopher’ Alexander Dugin, who is credited with some as being the source of aggressive and racist, expansionist Russian Nationalism.

    While this could be the case, his daughter is a full-blown fascist in her own right, having called for the extermination of Ukranians.

    So who did it? Presumably Ukranians or their allies, but you never know what power plays are going on within the Kremlin itself. There is a suggestion that the father is considered a bit of a clown and most useful to Putler as a martyr.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62621509

    More here, no necessarily endorsing all of the views expressed.

    https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1561253950371815424?s=21&t=S8hm9jwKFFa7A2cnZo93oA
     
  15. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    He's a full-blown crank (Stalin worshiper) with opinions for hire who stirs up the sheeple. Think of him as Der Färager dialled up to 11.

    The daughter was a professional **** stirrer and race baiter. The world's, literally, a better place without her.
     
  16. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Posted on Reddit (so it's probbly bollox) but quickly removed:

    Some corroboration?

    Screenshot 2022-08-22 at 09-41-49 Dmitri on Twitter.png

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1561465020940263426
     
    Moose likes this.
  17. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  18. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

  19. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Almost certainly internal state security cleaning house. Not sure what to make of this alleged RNA group but we can say with high certainty Putin needs things to whip up public support for (or at least to prevent people turning against) his little Ukraine jaunt and this sort of big bang seems to fit the bill nicely.

    It's funny how the FSB has the whole story sown up by tea time

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62634359

     
  20. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Typical MO of a special agent capable of delivering a powerful car bomb, to take your 12 year old with you.

    Russian Twitter bots threatening that they have individuals ready to ‘visit the Spires’ in Estonia who will make her acquaintance.
     
  21. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

  22. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  23. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    And for 'balance': the FSB have identified the 'bomber': she's a Ukrainian who traveled to Moscow with her 12 YO daughter then fled to Estonia but not before dropping her ID card identifying her as a member of the AZOV battalion:

    Screenshot 2022-08-22 at 17-34-07 Thomas C. Theiner on Twitter.png

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1561709015633100801
     
  24. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    FSB (who were providing security for the Dugins) showing they knew all about her:

    Screenshot 2022-08-22.png

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1561709015633100801

    Although there are some doubters:

    Screenshot 2022-08-22 at 17-57-58 Avreliy Skimen on Twitter.png

    https://twitter.com/Avreliy_Skimen/status/1561732102038626306

     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  25. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    That sounds plausible.
     
  26. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Latest Ukrainian fundraiser (actually more profile raiser) is to make bottle openers from downed RuSSian planes:



     
  27. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  28. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Ukrainian offensive to regain Kherson started this morning:

    Screenshot_20220829-230904_Instagram.jpg
     
  29. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    I'm always interested to see examples of propaganda in the media. The BBC has always been quite forward and unashamed with it. I was watching a documentary about the Mau Mau independence rebellion in Kenya in the 1950s and the British TV reports about the 'savages' and 'terrorists' etc etc. In fact of course, it was the British who were the savages. Raping and torturing, beating and killing - all with the idea of spreading terror amongst the people. They used pliers to castrate those suspected of being Mau Mau or inserted things into them. Torture often seems to have a sexual aspect to it for some reason - it seems the genitals are the first place they go for. But the absolute opposite was reported. The civilised and sophisticated British were just trying to HELP these savages and look at the thanks they got! Terrible!

    Anyway, the propaganda surrounding the Russia-Ukraine war has been horrific and really, really strong. Nobody could be in any doubt that ALL Russians are 100% pure evil, barbarians, savages, crazy. Meanwhile the Ukrainians just across the border are the exact opposite. 100% pure white goodness. Not a bad 'un amongst 'em and let's hear no more about it! Look how they played and played and played that clip of the Ukrainians on that island swearing at the Russians when asked to surrender. Amazing! So brave! Another example of just how overwhelmingly GOOD the Ukrainians are in fact. Not at all an insignificant event in a much wider conflict, which they could be telling us about. And of course, they were brutally and savagely murdered by the evil Russians immediately afterwards. How brave! What martyrs! Only then it turned out they weren't.

    The other night, for some reason, the BBC ran a supposedly serious section on one of its news programs where they had 6 talking heads on a divided screen and they were talking about whether the coverage of the way in (ahem) "western democracies" had been fair or not. Whether it had been balanced. Whether it had put both sides. Unbelievably all six heads unanimously agreed that it had been scrupulously and absolutely fair and balanced in the very best traditions of impartial reporting. Yes, they had put the Russian side of things they said, even though of course every single thing the Russians say is worthless and complete lies because they're such evil horrible bastards! They didn't ask why they don't ever interview any Russians about the matter, only Ukrainians. They didn't ask why news of any Ukrainian success, real or imagined, was presented in such gleeful triumphalist terms whilst any Russian advance or success was either ignored or reported in sombre, gloomy tones. They didn't ask whether on reflection it was a good idea to get ourselves so deeply involved in a regional conflict far away that has nothing to do with us. They didn't ask why this is the first time we've seen coverage of the effects of war on the poor victims, rather than the glory. glory shots of returning bombers touching down and interviews with colonels and military types we usually get to see from Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc when we have been amongst the aggressors. No, no, everything had been absolutely fine. More than fine in fact. Super balanced. Super fair. I don't know how they kept straight faces.

    Meanwhile, it's interesting to see a little bit of Ukrainian weariness coming in. The majority of those who took in refugees from Ukraine don't want them any more. Panorama shows how their children's homes and disabled people are treated shockingly badly and abandoned in decrepit institutions. It seems perhaps th Ukrainians are only 95% pure goodness rather than 100% as previously thought. And there are rather a lot of these refugees aren't there? Coming here, claiming asylum. Well they SAY they're refugees, but how many countries ahve they passed through to come here? Couldn't they have gone to Poland with the rest? There's nothing here for them. This is a local country for local people etc. etc. etc.
     
  30. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Here's a good example:-

    "The dreaded Mau Mau"

    "Bloody fanatics"

    "have cast a dark shadow"

    "terrorists"

    "a menace who have struck fear into people's hearts"

    "murdered a wise and peaceful chieftan"

    "bandits"

    "British troops have arrived to help and to bring peace"


     
  31. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Any news on what's happened to all the destroyed Ukrainian armour? Or hasn't there been any?

    Certainly I haven't seen any TV news shots of it. There's been loads and loads and loads of coverage of destroyed Russian tanks etc. of which this bottle opener thing is yet another novelty example to tickle the western senses. Do the openers come with a photo of the deceased Russian aviators who were flying the destroyed plane, or perhaps of their weeping families?
     
  32. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    From what I've seen of it the once, vibrant, Russian TV media is endless news reports and 'discussions' concerning, the totally justified, Russian victories over their fascist occupiers (in another country that should will return to theРодина) showing the Russian might and reveling in the loss of Ukrainian materiel. All independent Russian TV and radio dissent stations have gone and the print media (a once very flourishing scene with all points of view openly debated) is now being 'streamlined'.

    I try to feel some sympathy for the average 'Russian' (Russians are a minority compared to the other republics making up units of the army) soldier (escaping poverty) but it's very hard when they're part of the invading force of another sovereign state. As for Russian aviators - they are presumably from an educated and informed elite who know their military actions are in the very least 'questionable' - are we supposed to feel nothing when they bomb and strafe Ukrainian cities full of civilians?
     
  33. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Hard to shed a tear for aviators who deliberately unleash death on housing estates.

    Their lives and countless other Russian service men and women have been squandered by the Russian state in pursuit of this ridiculous war. A war that they won’t win in the long term anymore than the Yankees could hold Vietnam.

    None of the Russian reasons for war hold up as real reasons for an actual war. They may not like the Ukrainian direction towards NATO or the EU, but that’s not a reason to kill people. Especially when you have nuclear weapons and your territory is under no threat. Nazis are also not a reason to kill 10s of thousands of other people who are not Nazis. The reason there are Nazis in Ukraine is because there are Nazis in Russia. Aggressive nationalism breeds defensive nationalism.

    The only excuse that comes near is the civil war. But Russia would have been better off not provoking and exacerbating it by arming separatists, the sort of thing the US does that makes us fume. Peace is required there, not more conflict.

    Sure there is propaganda and hypocrisy here and elsewhere but the greatest fault in this instance is with the Russian state and it’s sponsored rampage of destruction and looting. There is also a very deep antipathy and resentment towards the Russian state from many of the satellite countries and they will support Ukraine until the end. We should listen to why they feel that way.
     
  34. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    This is a very weird post. I think you're probably following one too many soviet-adoring trade union leaders on Facebook.

    No one (including the BBC) is saying that everyone on one side of the war is perfect and the other is evil. In war, it can be the most ruthless that prevail. Not everyone who fought the Nazis were people you'd necessarily introduce to your mother.

    The story however is one of Russian paranoia, over aggression and embarrassing failure. One side with significantly greater military power, assertion and wealth, trying to bully its neighbour, starting war in Europe for very little reason (and killing a huge number of civilians), then absolutely egg-on-face failed in the vast majority of their military objectives.

    The BBC did present Russia's official side of the story, especially at the beginning of the war (I watched press conferences), but it was so untruthful and easily refuted that you can understand if this was stopped.

    The long game, as you allude to, will be whether the West can stay resolute. There is an upcoming food crisis in Africa, amplified by Covid, global warming and exacerbated by the war in Ukraine, which could lead to a huge migration crisis (and one which Europe will be even less sympathetic to). There is inflation, exacerbated by Covid (and our economic response), Brexit and the war in Ukraine. The pressure to give in to Russia's blackmail tactics will be extraordinary.

    But we mustn't. Democracy and liberty keep us safe and free and must be defended.
     
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  35. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Very interesting account of ethnic Russians in an 'occupied' country. I met the author, Robin, when he gave a seminar on 'Orwell' at the British Council in Vilnius (once the Lithos learnt of Orwell's socialist past/beliefs they left or stopped turning up and, to my eternal joy, Robin shared my opinion that "Coming Up For Air" was his best work. It ended up I was the only participant in the seminars which were quickly re-located to a local Kavinė and thence to my home. Robin was based in Estonia which, at the time, had a similar sized ethnic Russian population of around 50% as Latvia (ISTR Latvia was just over half and Estonia just under half - Lithuania's was around 15% mainly localized in two cities: Vilnius and the port of Klaipeda). Latvia and Estonia enacted extremely rigorous anti-Russian language laws (Latvia even went as far as issuing its ethnic Russian citizens with a different passport), literally, overnight whereas in Lithuania there weren't such harsh measures.
     

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