Transfer Talk & Suggestions

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by Burnsy, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    You know as well as I do that what managers say in the press isn't always the full truth and tends to speak more favourably to a players' ability than the actual thoughts of the club.

    You are also surely aware that it happens all the time that if a club can hang on to a young player for years on a cheap contract then they will do, in order to not lose him for free and hopefully get a fee for him in future - even if they have no intention or expectation of them becoming a key player.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  2. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Good to see we are now at the point where Rousy genuinely thinks he knows more about the inner thinking at West Ham than David Moyes :)
     
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  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Yes. I do know that. But all the reports and quotes lend themselves to one thing and one thing only. Even the player himself has said he rejected the chance to stay and moved.

    There’s plenty of times where shades of gray come into play - this clearly isn’t one of them.

    Again, probably just best to say you got this one wrong in good faith.
     
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  4. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    A £5k a week offer is nothing for a supposed regular PL player at a club like West Ham. If they really wanted him it'd been much more than that.
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    And if they really didn’t want him and were ‘happy to move him on’ they wouldn’t haven’t offered anything at all and done exactly that.

    Not really going to endlessly debate this. The evidence speaks for itself!
     
  6. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The £5k a week offer says it all snf just reinforces my assessment of Moyes' comments - it's peanuts for a club like West Ham. It's the salary of a player they're fine with keeping as a third choice backup and maybe loan out to the Champ, but not one of a key member of the first team squad who they were really bothered about holding on to.
     
  7. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    They can not really care about him staying, and make a crap offer on the off chance that they accept.

    Despite the comments, the offer shows they really weren't that bothered about keeping him. That fits with my overarching point that he wasn't highly rated by West Ham (and in turn he's now not highly rated by us).
     
  8. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    A West Ham statement read: "In line with our structure and policy, Ngakia was offered significantly improved terms to reward his breakthrough into the first-team squad this year, along with further contractual enhancements linked to his future progress and success.

    "However, the player and his representatives declined to accept any of the offers, and also turned down a short-term extension until the end of the current season.


    So a ‘number’ of offers were made offering a significant wage increase and he turned them all down. Hardly the actions of a club throwing one offer out and not really caring whether it was accepted - why make several attempts? And he was subsequently left out of squads after lockdown (as many players were) because he wouldn’t sign a short term extension.

    I really have no idea why you’re further entrenching yourself against the very, very clear evidence on show that West Ham wanted to keep him. Clubs official statement, Moyes words, media article after media article, West Ham fan forums…none of them know as much as you about it? Come on.

    Also worth noting that they were picking him ahead of Ben Johnson at the time - who has now broken through. Which suggests they did highly rate him.
     
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  9. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    "A number" = two.

    One of which was still a pittance for West Ham, increase or not, and the other was only an extra month or so lol.
     
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  10. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    If they didn't want him why make any offer let alone two. Would seem to be a complete waste of time and money
     
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  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    One of the offers was just until the end of the season to fill out the squad because of injuries.

    The other offer, as I've pointed out on numerous occasions, was £5k a week - that's less than 1/10th of the average salary of West Ham's first team squad at the time (£54k p/w) . It is not a salary commensurate with an idea of them seeing him as a first-team player or even squad member.

    Such a deal wouldn't have been a waste of money for them as they then have an absolute emergency squad filler costing them hardly anything who they could hope to still flog to the Championship soon enough for £1mil or so, as opposed to him leaving for free and them only getting a tribunal fee.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics...-in-football-clubs-english-premier-league-uk/
     
  12. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    ‘A number’ = two, three, four and so on.

    Once again, why are you tying yourself in knots rather than just saying you made an honest mistake in what you said?

    You’ve now said he was dropped because ‘Ben Johnson is and was a better player’ - Ngakia was impressing. Again that was widely said…so why would they drop Ngakia unceremoniously for Johnson, who had been fit all along? It’s not as if Ngakia’s form had dropped. They clearly dropped him because he wouldn’t sign a deal and you’re now coming up with mental gymnastics to deny that point. If they deemed Johnson better, They wouldn’t have picked Ngakia ahead of him to start with!

    We all make errors on here - some big, some small. But overwhelmingly in good faith I imagine - and that’s what I suspect here! Just find it strange why you’re continuing to dig rather than calmly stating you honestly got it wrong.

    You must realise the balance of probability here has been shown to be massively against what you’re saying? So why continue to deny it as if you know more than his manager, his club, their fans and the player himself?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  13. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

    This is vintage LR

    Watch it, drink it in
     
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  14. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Gutted I'm missing this, sounds like one of those LR arguments that will be passed down through the generations.
     
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  15. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Sorry, did you say they didn't want him yet they offered him a new contract? Those two things simply don't fit together
     
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  16. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    It's not really an offer in line with the idea of wanting him, it's more a token gesture so they can hopefully flog him for a fee.
     
  17. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    Please may I take this opportunity to remind posters of one of the unwritten rules of this forum. 'The conclusion of any argument presented by lowerrous must always be true (at least he appears to believe so) even if the assumptions behind his reasoning are clearly false.'
     
  18. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Haha - except Johnson hadn't "been fit all along" - Ngakia only got his debut vs Liverpool in January 2020 because Johnson was injured from Sep 2019 until the end of the covid break in 2020.

    https://www.football.london/west-ham-united-fc/players/ben-johnson-second-shot-west-18403315

    Ngakia only played because both Fredericks and Johnson, who were both above him in the pecking order, were out injured in early 2020.

    And if he really had "impressed" they would have offered him much more than just £5k p/w.

    Their offer was completely in line with what he was - someone who was merely their 3rd choice right-back who they didn't rate that highly and weren't that bothered about, but would simply rather get a fee for than lose him on a free.
     
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Fair enough - I made an honest mistake.

    See how easy it is? Notice how I didn't tie myself in knots pontificating against the clear evidence you provided? How I accepted it as the truth?
     
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  20. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    In all seriousness who has time to do this every time in a thread. It must be exhausting putting all the effort in to argue a point. What for a reply then argue some more to get some kind of moral victory over a total stranger.

    Theres more to life if you ask me.
     
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  21. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    I don't agree. You said in November 2021 that arguing is healthy and the forum needs it.
     
  22. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    No I didn't. What I meant was its healthy in moderation.
     
  23. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Ah but you didn't say that.
     
  24. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    So?
     
  25. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Well say you were wrong then....
     
  26. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    See. It's exhausting.
     
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  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    What is? I skipped right to end when I realised it wasn’t funny.
     
  28. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Exactly my point. Not meant to be funny. I'm sure you can see that in between checking people's posts from 2018?
     
  29. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    it’s
     
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  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Was that meant for LR? You can fairly throw many things at me - but historical checking of others posts isn’t one of them, pas I’ve been one of the most vocal people against such behaviour!
     
  31. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    I'm sorry.
     
  32. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Bully.
     
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  33. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    He's shown nothing to say he will be very good, looks scared of the ball and often caught daydreaming. Lee Hodson looked better at 21 than Ngakia does.
     
  34. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK Reservist

    I think we should keep him, I don't dispute that he is a more defensive than attacking as a full back but:

    a) I quite like him and in the main think he has done OK for us even pushing up a bit, he can also learn the role. Never on the left though, that was a disaster.
    b) If we let him go and get another specialist wing back in as cover then we will be knackered in mid Oct when the new manager comes in and plays a back four, keeps the options open.
     
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  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I think we should offer him a new contract - to let him know just how much we don’t want him.
     
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