The Social Democratic Party

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by Lloyd, Jul 26, 2022.

  1. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    The Tories have lost the plot; Sir Keir is dull and pretty inoffensive but lurking behind him ready to grab the levers of power are characters like Richard Burgon and Emily Thornbury; the LibDems can never be forgiven for their post-Brexit performance....

    I could quite happily vote Green and may well do, but what about the Social Democratic Party? sdp.org.uk At first glance their policies seem attractive. Is there something I should know about them? Are they closet racists or communists? Who is their leader?
     
  2. Bwood_Horn likes this.
  3. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    TBFT M'Lord Owen, he has some fairly 'out there' views on the EU...
     
  4. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    The issue with the focussed parties such as the Greens is entirely that. They are completely or majorly focused on the one issue. It might well be commendable correct and agreeable but they don;t have the policy, experience or will to run the rest of government. a green agenda is fine, it's what's needed, but it needs to be tempered with reality.

    The SDP suggest themselves that they are economically "Left leaning" At the moment we need to be economically right leaning, but with softer edge on those at the bottom of the tree.

    Actually
    https://sdp.org.uk/about/
    Culturally traditional, troubles me somewhat.
     
  5. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Morris dancing?
     
  6. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Greens regularly participate in running 'the rest of government' in some European countries. The Labour Party didn't have any experience of government before 1924. You're just making an argument for the persistence of the status quo despite claiming to be fed up with current politicians.
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  7. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Didn't think of that, even more horrific than I first thought.
     
  8. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    The greens are probably the closest party to my ideology at the moment and except for a few fundementals they're closest to stealing my vote from Buckethead.

    Prompeted by your reply I've had a quick refresh of their manisfesto.https://campaigns.greenparty.org.uk/manifesto/#rat

    Specifically focussing on their non green issues as their green issues I probably agree with.

    Their European policy starts with Campaigning to remain in the EU. So that is in need of an update somewhat. They go on to want free borders but to control migration by ensuring wage parity across Europe. Nice idea but fundementally impossible with the diversity of countries within Europe. Feasible only if you have a tier system maybe. Personally I dont like the European immigration rules which treat Europeans differenty to other nationalities. I'd like to see people allowed here (potentially in greater numbers) based on their skillset and needs of the country, rather than country of origin.

    Replacing first past the post. I agree with as long as there is some way of solving the disconnect between MP & consituency that this would cause. I've not seen a solution for this currently, and until we can have a system that won't break this link or prevent parliament from making decisions because there's no majority we need to stick with what we have.

    Giving 16 years olds the vote?
    I'm fundementally against this unless 16 year olds are considered as full adults in every other walk of life also. This means, active military service, leaving school, driving any vechicle, the same minimum wage, criminal responsibility, Alcohol etc. If they are adult enough to make decisions about running the country then they are adult enough to take responsibility and decisions for themselves. Personally I don't think at 16 the majority are.

    This is a biggie:
    Merge Employees National Insurance, Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, Dividend Tax and Income Tax into a single Consolidated Income Tax. This closing of loopholes will bring in an estimated £20 billion extra per year into the public purse. It will mean that all income is treated the same way for tax purposes.
    I agree with this one in spades and have been advocating it for a long time.

    Their plan to tax people based on the land/housing they own however is regressive and takes no account of ability to pay. 1.4% a year? Having a low salary, but living in an expensive area because I worked my but off in the past to get there means I'll be taxed at a rate that my salary can not support. Wealth disparity is an issue caused by ineffective taxation in the past. Irreversible decisions and future plans have been made on this and to retrospectively penalise prudent people is unfair.
    Mind you they want to phase in changes over 10 years with reliefs on offer which suggests that they don't have a clue what the impact will be or if it will be feasible.

    Increase corporation tax to 24%? Yep that'll improve much needed growth and entice comapnies here that are already dealing with more red tape and costs.


    So in summary as I thought I do fundementally agree with the Green's ethos but their detail is either non existent or lacking in reality and there;s a few biggies I just don't like. They're a good pressure or opposition party but not ready to govern at least not on their own in my opinion.
     
    HenryHooter likes this.
  9. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Fine but you could argue that some of the more established parties are also 'not ready to govern' because of their stance on environmental/climate change or animal welfare issues (say).

    Which, of course, is why coalitions might be positive as one party would moderate another.
     
    sydney_horn and Since63 like this.
  10. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Absolutely.

    Unless they want to reinstate ceefax I'm not interested.
    I now find out that Buckethead is now Binface
    https://www.countbinface.com/london-2021-manifesto

    and he wants London to join the EU so he's lost my vote as well.
     
  11. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    This is Georgist Theory and was very, very fashionable amongst the Baltic States' various tax authorities in the mid 90's - I *think* that Estonia was giving it serious consideration to replace *all* their taxes the other sates to lesser degrees. Come the various EU accession/harmonisation programmes it was quietly forgotten. Home ownership in the FSU was at *fantastically* high levels and this made Georgism very, very attractive.
     
  12. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Sounds an eminently sensible chap. Far more level-headed than the Tories.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  13. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    How does this differ from Council Tax?
     
  14. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Their plan rolls that into income tax. This is additional.

    Council tax is directly paid to the council to provide the services to your property. There is a discount for single occupancy or vacant premises to reflect the amount of services required per home and there are schemes for those that can not afford. The greens land tax unfairly penalises people who have grown up in an area if they are assumed rich or have saved up to buy a nice house without considering ability to pay. Wealth based taxes are too blunt an instrument to apply fairly.
     
  15. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    I’m not sure I see the difference. I pay towards social care and policing via my council tax, for example. I pay towards the NHS and education via my income tax. I may make no direct use of any of those things on a personal basis.

    Of course you are correct about allowances but a manifesto is deliberately broad brush. Just because they are not mentioned doesn’t mean they won’t exist.
     

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