The B Word

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by sydney_horn, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    They will put it in all the slop foods that come in a plastic container rather than sell it as an ingredient I imagine
     
  2. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

  3. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Have the Brexiteers decided if trade deals are good or bad yet? In fairness, most of the true believers seem to have largely defended the India trade deal. But all the opportunist Brexiteers - Badenoch at the forefront, Our Nige - have tried to attack it.

    And now today a US trade agreement of some sort coming too.
     
  4. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    And to think, all of this only possible because of a democratic vote that the left whined about and tried to reverse because the result didn’t go their way.

    For the record, I didn’t vote leave.
     
  5. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    First, it was not a left/right thing. The Conservatives party, at the time, were far more enthusiastic about remaining than the lukewarm support Corbyn gave it. And several Unions came out for leave.

    Second, while any trade deal (providing UK standards are maintained) is welcome, what the UK has managed to negotiate since Brexit has come no where near to filling the gaping hole left by leaving the EU SM and CU.

    It is ironic that Starmer, a committed remainer, has managed to get agreements with India and the USA within his first year of office when the likes of pro leave Johnson failed for years!
     
  6. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    Both of which are absolutely dog sh*t deals!!
     
  7. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    Badenoch will post cope for any Labour-made trade deal or decision regardless of what it is, the conservatives have literally no other communications strategy.

    The worst part it is so transparent even the right are laughing at them for it now.

    [​IMG]
     
    Lloyd likes this.
  8. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    Another example of the above is 'The Telegraph podcast' or whatever it is called where both mutually agreed "yes interest rates were lowered but it wasn't even a unanimous decision from my understanding so they clearly don't have faith in Starmer". Stop embarrassing yourselves and just wait for something inevitable to appear that can actually be criticised how are you so bad at this?
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  9. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Oh look !
    Someone with a few quid in the bank ,moaning at those who have nothing ,that they voted wrong .

    Poor people don't give a shyte. Which part don't you pretend socialists understand ?
     
  10. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Weird take, seeing Brexit as 'few quid in the bank' people versus 'poor people'.
    Pretty much. Any trade deal the UK does from now on is going to be a relatively small. A few billion here and there added to the economy over many years. The aim is to gain advantages for the few things we still make and export. Hence the India deal knocks down tariffs on things like whisky (https://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/newsroom/swa-welcomes-transformational-uk-india-fta/) and the US one carves out exemptions for steel, aluminum and cars. Not going to make any difference to my life or your life though.
     
    Lloyd and sydney_horn like this.
  11. Good job you "didn't vote for brexit" then.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  12. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Isn't that the reality of negotiating with the world's largest economy and another one that has motored past ours and will soon be the third largest, whilst simultaneously not trying further diverge from what is easily our biggest market (the EU)? They hold the cards and can in effect set most of the terms because we need them more than they need us and both sides know it.

    The idea that the UK on its own would be in a stronger negotiating position than with the collective heft of the EU was always a stupid position. We are deal takers now, we get whatever crumbs from the table the likes of India and the US are willing to give us. Control taken back, mission accomplished!
     
  13. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    Badenoch: We need to cut immigration. Noooo not like that!
     
  14. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Absolutely blind rage from the right wing accounts on X about the deal with the EU that no one even knows the exact details of yet. They’re super keen to get ahead of it though and get the rage bait going.

    A clear sign it’s a good move by Starmer and Labour.
     
    domthehornet likes this.
  15. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Why can't you people who have a few bob accept that those who have less voted against you ?
    Stop pretending to care about those who are less fortunate than yourself .
     
  16. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    No one need a lecture from rich people like you David.

    Brexit was done in 2020 and finalised in 2021. Boris told us that. This is about our future relationship with the EU.

    Labour was elected on a manifesto promising to "deepen ties with our European neoghbours". Starmer's delivering on his mandate.
     
    Calabrone, wfcmoog and sydney_horn like this.
  17. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Part of the disingenuity of the Leavers, was their muddled claim about how relations with the EU could work if we 'left.'
    Then, having won a vote without a clear definition of 'leave' the claim seems to have been that it meant 'absolutely zero contact with Europe ever again. No deals, no trade, no Johnny Foreigners etc.'

    There was never a mandate for a 'Hard Brexit' and the self sabotage we undertook was madness. Good to see some of that damage being mitigated, finally.
     
  18. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    There was no real mandate for any specific Brexit. That was the biggest flaw of the Referendum.

    Although there was an "official" Leave campaign it never had a detailed (or even outlined) plan for what it was going to do if it won.

    Partly that was down to, imho, the fact they didn't believe they were going to win. And partly it was down to the "victors" not actually being in government. It was left to a very ill prepared Tory government to put together a post Brexit referendum strategy.

    On top of that you had Farage and the rest of the Ukip leaders, who were not actually part of the official Leave campaign, coming up with their own, often random, opinions about what Brexit actually meant (who remembers Farage suggesting a "Norway" Brexit could be the way forward?).

    It all led to a myriad of Brexits that people thought they were voting for. It's hardly surprising that many Leave voters are producing conflicting messages now or even claiming that Brexit "hasn't happened properly yet".

    For every 10 Leave voters you get at least 5 different visions of what Brexit was supposed to look like. Ironically the Brexit we have was predicted by most, if not all, Remain voters.
     
  19. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Why do the Brexit lot obsess so much about fish? It's a weird fixation to have. Even if it's a good example of a domestic industry harmed by decades of EU membership, which is questionable anyway, it's nearly kaput entirely now. There's nothing left to prop up. Even Brexit couldn't revive it.
     
  20. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    The vote was so close the mandate was objectively to basically become like Switzerland, it is unreasonable to draw any other conclusion from 52/48
     
  21. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn First Team

    Just heard Steve "farking loony" Baker described as a "...thinker of the EU and Brexit..." on R4 :D:p:rolleyes:o_O.

    Mods: Where's the "laughing so hard I'm gonna puke" emoji?
     
  22. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn First Team

    FTFY
     
  23. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Reservist

    It's because it resonates with a certain type of person, people who think about this sceptred isle and have romantic notions of the fishing industry being a source of national pride. There's also the suspicion from the same people that pesky foreigners are sneaking into our waters and stealing our fish. So it's emblematic of ideas that don't stand up and problems that don't exist. If we can see off Johnny Foreigner and his nets and rods, Britain can be great again. This sounds like a parody but there are people who actually think like this.

    I remember in the run-up to Brexit having a conversation with a fervent Brexiteer who cited a rejuvenated fishing industry as a potential benefit of leaving. I asked him how often he ate fish. A couple of times a month, he said. I asked him to name the top 5 fish caught in British waters. He had no idea. But the fishing industry was massively important to him.

    I pointed out that the video game industry is worth almost four times the fishing industry to the UK economy and he wouldn't have it. (That's not the value of games sold, that's the value of the actual industry to the economy in terms of jobs, investment, R&D and so on). The cycling industry (if you count leisure, sport and active travel) is worth more than five times the fishing industry. Both would be negatively impacted by Brexit (and have been), but again, the facts couldn't counter his feelings.

    You can't win an argument with people who stick resolutely to 'what they reckon'. The great folly of the Remain case was thinking that people would care about facts.

    The argument has shifted over the years. For some of the class warriors it's more important to believe that middle class people secretly hate those worse off than them than it is to recognise the damage they've done to their own interests and prospects. Utterly barmy, but there we go.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  24. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Squad Player

    Those who voted for Brexit betrayed this country’s young people (who themselves were unable to vote back then) and its wonderful they will soon get their freedom of movement back.
     

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