Sir Elton Speaks

I'll probably get a ban for this, but surely the thoughts of our President are worthy of discussion?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...-elton-john-outraged-as-brexit-hits-musicians

 

Good to read Elton hates z cars as well

 

Nice article. I especially like the bit about seeing the whole year round with the kids and David for the first time. Seems he is finding some happiness without the constant working and touring.

I love Elton because of what he has done for our club. His opinions, almost exclusively, are of absolutely no interest to me. I do not generally hang on the words of alcoholic, drug addicted narcisists as a whole, no matter how brilliant an artist, and club Chairman, they may be. Let's face it. He signed Bassett and tried to sell us to Robert Maxwell, so it is not particularly useful to hold him up as a great judge of what is good and what is not. Some may even have described him as a philistine for those two things alone.

He's right that touring needs to be looked at, but he is a rampamt remainer as well (remember his anti Brexit rant in Italy a few years back?), so his comments should be considered in that context, though they also deserve the respect of being taken seriously.

Unfortunately for Elton, and people in the entertainment business, democracy trumps their freedom of movement, and if Elton is now concerned about people's ability to tour Europe without having to fill in forms (that appears to be the issue he is raising), then he should really look towards what goes on with the rest of the world, where the same laws now associated with European touring have always been in place. And if it is the EU, typically, making things as difficult as possible, then their role should also be considered part of the problem.

As for the Government talking directly to him. Why? Hear what he has to say, yes, but by his own admission, he is totally unaffected by the post Brexit rules, which means that he will not be discussing the matter from any level of understanding, but from a purely political point of view, so far removed from those affected as to be on a different planet. He explains that much himself, so his complaint may be seen more as a "do they not know who I am" moment, rather than a genuine "think of the poor artists" concern.

Surely the Government has more to learn from people affected by these rules, rather than a mega millionaire who managed to build his career at a time when those rules, or their equivalent, were the norm. Freedom of movement didn't exist until decades after Elton made his name.

#loveElton-LoathTantrums

 

You talk like being a remainer is hereditary or something. He’s a remainer because of idiotic things like this that affect normal businesses, not just touring musicians.

 

Did not read a single ***** word.

Is this what the politics section was like? Threads full of self-indulgent whoppers writing essays?

Just ***** LOL at that section and the micro-brains therein.

 

That is a fair expression of opinion, but along with the very reasonable issues that people have with Brexit comes project fear, including gohorea epidemics, claims of uncontrolled racism, right wing extremism (the subjects of Elton's Italian rant), job losses to follow the vote in 2016, traffic jams in Dover, etc., and that is a level of dishonesty and scare mongering that should not be discounted when considering remainer arguments. I also think the rest of my reasoning seems to be fair as well, with him being, on his own admission, so far removed from the situation he is talking about.

Probably best if I leave it there. The politics forum was good for handling the situation when people didn't like hearing alternative views. It would not be good for that attitude to come out here.

 

How do you know what it was like if you didn't read it? You have made a whole tweet sized post just commenting on it.

I reckon you are a secret self indulgent whopper mate.

 

I don’t have a problem with alternative views, just the fact that you tried to discredit his point by saying he’s a remainer. That makes no sense as any sort of coherent argument.

 

To use your own argument, you’re a brexiter so there was no point in reading what you have to say.

 

No I didn't, as you can see from my post, I said it should be considered when hearing his words, BUT not stop him from being taken seriously.

It is there in black and yellow.

 

I was not replying to you. You are getting worked up, and you clearly are not even reading the posts.

Welcome to sensible conversation in the politics section. I am already being accused of saying things I didn't by someone who is not reading the posts.

 

Very strange to suggest I’m getting worked up

 

Do you think so? When you reply to my response to Relegation Certs, making up a narrative that I said Elton should be ignored because he is a remainer?

Why would you do that if you weren't worked up?

It is not a normal thing to do.

 

The content is irrelevant. It's the fact you thought strangers on the internet would be interested to read such lengthy ramblings that proves you are utterly deranged.

Not that it's any of my business like, so play on.

 

I don't remember being asked whether I wanted major barriers to musicians touring Europe.

 

Private Eye printed something the other week that the EU put forward a proposals for EU-wide work permits/visas for UK musicians but 'our' government weren't interested...

 

...Because we would have to offer reciprocity. Dogma in its purest form.
This **** is now complaining about the consequences.

 

I like Iron Maiden and Bruce is a world class fencer, pilot and has one of the widest vocal ranges in pop/rock, but he's clearly been a bit of an idiot here.

 

Do you remember being asked to pay income tax?

 

Anyone still wondering what the problem may have been in the politics section?

With posters, like this, calling people ****ish for being East African Asians, and others coming in to defend them, and describing anyone with an opposing view as a ****, it is no wonder the place is full of personal attacks and crying babies.

If people find me annoying for pointing these things out, perhaps they should take a long look in the mirror.

 

I remember a poster replied to GoBE saying that he was behaving like an East African Asian (yes I saw it) and then quickly edited it. Pretty racist imho. Now who was that?

 

Actually I know the law. At the time of the referendum we were told there were no downsides and 52% of those who bothered to vote believed it. They certainly weren't asked whether this, troubles in Northern Ireland and the other Brexit disasters were a price worth paying. Thetefore, I can't accept your claim that the difficulties faced by touring musicians are the consequence of a democratic decision.

 

Anyone exclusively listened to people saying there would be no down side were being very selective about what they were listening to. It is a shame they were not listening to the more sober and sensible discussions where Brexiteers were saying it could take ten years to recover fully from some of the effects of leaving the EU. Thankfully, the majority of leavers were fully aware that there would be a downside, even if remainers were convinced there wouldn't be.

In terms of COVID, I for one am glad that we avoided the tens of thousands of deaths in the EU that would have occurred due to deliberate scare mongering over the Astra Zeneca vaccine, not to mention the likely hundreds of thousands of non fatal cases, including severe and long cases, that would require hospitalisation and ongoing treatment. And that is before you even factor in the EU's blocking of Gemany and other countries using our contracts with AZ as a fast track method of acquiring the vaccine that could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives and multiple millions of cases. And then there is the EU's totally lack lustre vaccine roll out, which saw them threaten sanctions against the UK and the reneging of agreements to supply vaccines to less well off countries, and an embargo on exports of vaccines to Australia.

I would say that is small beer, in terms of human costs, even compared to what is going on in Northern Ireland at the moment. Hundreds of thousands of deaths. Millions of COVID cases. When the matter is reviewed, if it is allowed to be, heads will roll in the EU. Fortunately they were unable to stop us from going down the path we did, because we were not part of the EU anymore.

We are now forecasted to be the fastest growing advanced economy in the world over the next few years, way ahead of the EU, predominantly because of our COVID response and the international trade deals we are doing. Both of which would not have been possible without Brexit.

Just because no one wants to talk about all this, with some getting angry just because I am saying it, doesn't mean it isn't so.

I am not talking politics here. I am comparing vaccine roll outs, between the UK and EU, as a response to the negative views of Brexit which you raised in your post.

 

We could’ve done exactly what we have done with vaccines whether in the EU or not.

 

Since you raised it...

Yes. Very racist. I agree. I remember two people criticising me for calling out GoBE for stating his opinion of what an East African Asian behaved like (the very point of my making that stark use of irony when criticising his racism).

One of them even threatened the Forum with a court case because I said I believed they were defending his racism by attacking my criticism of it. He got the post deleted where he criticised me for objecting to GoBE's comment.

Now who was that Sydney?

Why you subsequently mistook my use of irony for me being racist because I turned GoBE's disgusting comment around on him, I have no idea.

I can say that I have absolutely no memory of either of that person, or the other person defending GoBE from my disgust, ever criticised him for saying what he said. You are welcome to put me right on that.

Better put the mods on standby.

 

I don't believe we could. Certainly Germany and the two other countries involved in using our contracts as a template did not.

And if you consider what the EU attempted to do with our legally contracted vaccine supply, what do you think they would have done if we were under a Labour Government and still part of the EU?

For one, we would not have gone our own way with the contracts in the first place, just ask Germany, and for another, no one believes the EU would not have insisted on a vaccine share-out, had one member state literally been in the situation where, on its own, it had vaccinated more people than the rest of the bloc put together (which at one point was the case). They tried to do that, going through the courts, even when we were not a member.

On paper, what you say is an unlikely possibility. Through practical experience, it just would not ever have happened.

 

Yeah, you were just being ironic. Ok.

 

1. Both sides resorted to hyperbole. The "no down side" was a direct quote from vote leave campaigners. As was "an immediate recession" and "a possible ww3" came from Remain. To insinuate just one side were "fully aware" of the consequences of their vote is plain nonsense as there were so many exaggerations and lies during the campaign.

2. EMA, driven by their usual inclination to save money, dropped the ball on the vaccines. But you cannot conflate the comments of individual national leaders, like Macron, with the EU. It is like blaming the mistakes of the Blair administration, like the Iraq war, on the EU. The EU policy has been pro vaccine, including AZ. Medical licensing and imports is, and always has been, a national competence. No country in the EU can be prevented from doing anything by the EU when it comes to medicines.

3. What is happening in Northern Ireland is down to Brexit and the agreement proposed, and agreed to, by the UK government. The consequences of Brexit, when it came to NI, was fully explained by many knowledgeable people, including architects of the GFA like Blair and Major.

I took you off ignore because the politics section is dead. I thought you might actually have something interesting to say about football. I'll put you back on ignore now.

 

Seeing as I was criticising him for using the very term, I think Irony would have been the natural assumption of anyone seeing me use it to attack the apparent racism of the person I was quoting.

So yes.

Any chance you may now, finally, criticise GoBE's use of the phrase, and comment on whether or not you find "The ****ish views of East African Asians" racist in any way?

Some people may wonder if your reasons for putting me back on ignore are genuine.

 

Yes, any generalisation of the characteristics of a group of people based on their race is racist. What GOBE posted was racist and your reply was also racist whatever you choose to call it.

Now go and find a politics forum to annoy and let this be a football forum. The politic discussion is boring people and is not welcome here. Do you not get that yet?

Bye

 

State of this thread.

I think the only sensible option is to remove the entire Taylor's Tittle Tattle forum.

 

All good stuff. But I do not see that they have any bearing on the discussion I was having with Bunny.

Your first point is spot on. It doesn't excuse anyone only listening to that which bolstered their own opinion. My insinuation is that only one side was making any claims about what the other side was voting for. And I do not think anyone can, for a moment, prove that I am mistaken in thinking that. Not the Brexit you voted for, but yes it was. A Brexit where we were free of EU laws or their ability to pass new laws over us. You did not vote for a down side, yet I have not met a leaver that believed there would not be a price to pay that would not be balanced, in the long term, by the benefits.

I think the bluster about membership of the EMA is a canard when it comes to what we would or would not have done with a vaccine. The EU successfully put pressure on member states not to use our contract as a fast track, costing many lives and suffering, and is very indicative of what would have happened if we had been members, and that pressure came from the Council, not from the EMA. Neither were the actions of the EU, to grab our contracted supplies, anything to do with the EMA. Neither was the Australian embargo.

What is happening in Northern Ireland is down to Brexit. There is not doubt about that. Could the EU act in better faith? Certainly they could. Will they? Nope.

 

1. This is the non-football section of the forum

2. My post you replied to was criticising GoBE for bringing the nasty politics section comments into the main forum.

3. If you hadn't replied to me on the subject, I would not be discussing it with you.

4. It is appreciated that you have made a clear statement on your thoughts about that disgusting comment.

5. But it is very unfortunate that you also seem to want to make me out as a racist for criticising him for being racist, and despite him making that original comment, chose only to criticise me at the time, and take two years to criticise his original use of the term that I threw back at him.

Bye

 

Funny, but there is actually a discussion going on, and no one has yet stooped to abuse or name calling, except GoBE of course. Though Sydney has done his best to belittle the fact that I have an opinion.

Hey. Nothing nasty from me though, unless you count disagreeing with people.