Shamima Begum

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by Maninblack, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    As one of the three London 15yr olds who were brainwashed into going to Syria as IS brides in 2015, Shamima Begum, now 19, wants to return to Britain. She is 9 months pregnant and her two other children died.

    Vulnerable though she undoubtedly is - in a refugee camp & pregnant - she shows no regret about her decision to help IS. However, the welfare of her baby should be the primary concern - it's not the baby's fault.

    I like to think of myself as compassionate but in this case I don't think she should be allowed back. If she wants the best for her child, who will be born a British citizen, she could give it up to our social care system.
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  2. hornetgags

    hornetgags McMuff's lovechild

    She made her choice and once she did, she waived all rights as a British citizen and it should have been revoked the second she turned 18.

    She's a terrorist and we fight terrorists, we don't give the enemy aid and comfort.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  3. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Listening to her she has no remorse and only wants to come back as the baby will be looked after and the Caliphate is collapsing.

    She still has the mindset of IS and as such is an enemy of the state. She has made her bed, now she must lie in it.
  4. The man at Esso says this one is close.
    Can she play the Chalobah role ?
    Wages ?
    Bwood_Horn and Filbert like this.
  5. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    As Domthehornet said, absolutely no remorse so tough luck although it's a little unfair on the unborn baby that doesn't get the choice. I suspect though it's more to do with IS collapsing than anything else. She should have the opportunity to hand the child over to authorities to make sure it's looked after correctly and then be left to her own devices. I really don't think we need people like her coming back to our country
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  6. reids

    reids Squad Player

    If she tries to return the baby should be taken into care (the baby will most likely end up radicalised - as others have said she has showed no remorse or regrets and still believes she is right) and she should be refused entry.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I think the Government has this right at the moment. We can’t actually deny her entry if another country deports her. However we are under no obligation to risk anyone’s life by going to get her.

    If she does return she needs to be fully assessed and then careful action taken about the level of risk she poses. I don’t think much can be read into what she says right now. She will be utterly traumatised from her experiences. Positive words should be considered as sceptically as any others.

    She was 15 when she left and ultimately we don’t generally treat minors as being beyond saving.
    sydney_horn and hornmeister like this.
  8. She has the right, if she comes back to the UK, of a fair hearing, and if she has committed crimes the law will deal with her
    Arakel, sydney_horn and Moose like this.
  9. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    If she returns after March, imagine her surprise when she finds out we’ve left the EU! She’ll think we’ve all gone barmy!
    kVA and Bwood_Horn like this.
  10. The risk will be if it can't be proven that she has committed crimes given her clear support for those that have. Unless that in itself is a crime ?
  11. The Times correspondent who found her, Anthony Loyd, described her after interviewing her as an “indoctrinated jihadi bride”. On that basis alone, I'd say she should stay where she is - had IS not collapsed, I suspect she would still be with them.

    As for her yet-to-be born child - would he/she automatically be deemed British and have the right to live here anyway? It may not be the child's fault, but the father's nationality must surely have some bearing on this?
  12. hornmeister

    hornmeister Club Legend

    As a part time amateur lawyer, the legalities as I see it.

    Technically she's still a British citizen. A person needs to be 18 to renounce citizenship and it can only be done as part of the process of accepting another citizenship. Even if she'd gone through the proper process she wouldn't have been old enough and the citizenship she wanted isn't officially recognised anyway.
    This is to prevent statelessness and therefore also means that she can apply for her child to have British citizenship. I'm not sure if Dutch citizenship is possible under similar laws they have.

    After the age of criminal responsibility (10) she committed a criminal act in joining a terrorist organisation. These charges are outstanding and would likely also be legal grounds for separating her from her child.

    If she can make it to a British embassy I think she'll be brought back here to face legal proceedings. I hope it's unlikely she'd get bail.

    As Moose says doubt we'll be expending any energy bringing her back unless we have to.
  13. We can’t selectively apply our principles or that makes us no better than a 3rd world tinpot dictatorship like Syria.

    Arrest her if she comes back and let the law do what it has to do.

    Being a member of a banned terrorist organisation looks like grounds for prosecution and jail time. Other than that what has she done, other than run away from home and let a Dutch guy bang her?
  14. Gotta love the bit how she was "unfazed on seeing a bunch of severed heads in a bucket".

    Sounds like a lovely person to have back here to bring her child up as an anti British terrorist.

    No thanks.
    wimbornet and kVA like this.
  15. hornetgags

    hornetgags McMuff's lovechild

    Can the government revoke citizenship?
  16. hornmeister

    hornmeister Club Legend

    We've all been there
  17. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    How honest can she really be with a national newspaper about her regret for joining IS?

    I can't imagine it would go down too well to criticise the organisation, or the choice to join them, whilst still in Syria.
  18. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Heard someone on the radio compare her to young white lads in this country being programmed to be ultra right wing, the comparisons is correct. She is mentally ill and needs help just like those lads.
  19. Ahh the excellent "mental illness get out of jail free" card.

    Brilliant. I'm going to rob a bank tonight. I'm mentally ill though so it's all ok.
  20. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    You're not dubbed the forum hippie for nothing - back any minority irrespective of the facts and have a good old virtue signal.

    She is part of an organisation that seeks to kill or enslave all those who don't believe a particular flavour of fairy story from medieval times. She deserves nothing as that's exactly what she would do for an "infidel". She's only mentally ill in the same way that any religious person is
    CYHSYF likes this.
  21. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    She was a child indoctrinated into a world of hate, anyone who wants to kill others based on their religion, colour of skin or any other reason other than self defence is of course mentally ill.
  22. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    As, of course, must any atheist be, if you follow that line of argument. We are all products of our environment and are not as free-thinking as we like to think we are.

    Anyway, having heard many of the issue's complexities discussed on the radio today, my original stance has changed. Rather than simply saying 'don't let her back in' I think that if she does get to the UK border (whatever state that is after 29th March!) then let the authorities process her as with any British citizen who has allegedly committed crimes abroad. She may well still be brainwashed and consequently desensitized to the effects of seeing severed heads. However whatever happens to her still comes secondary to the welfare of her unborn child.
  23. hornetgags

    hornetgags McMuff's lovechild

    Nope, as an athiest myself, to me there is an absence of evidence to prove there is a god - therefore, I use critical thinking, A religous person relies on faith that a god exists.

    There is no athiest I know of who will kill or wants to kill a believer.
  24. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Made poor decisions as a child. Now an adult wants to return. whilst worst than most who didn't make dumb decisions when young?
    Let's have a heart, provided we can have some degree of certainty that she has become moderate. If she is coming back just for the benefits of a first world country and still wants to attend radical mosques and shows that way of living and thinking then she doesnt have my sympathy.
  25. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    I see above she is still spouting IS stuff. she can stay there.
  26. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    I baggsy Lily Allen.
  27. She was groomed as a child, no less than a victim of the Rochdale gang. She has spent the time since in a brutalised oppressive environment with no one to set her straight.
    Bwood_Horn and cyaninternetdog like this.
  28. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    So a stupidly long legal process with lots of appeals for the next 5 years. All at our expense. Great.
  29. Yes, we shouldn't hold the behaviour of any ISIS member against them - they are all simply ill and need treatment.
  30. I want to kill Rees-Mogg. Does that count?
  31. She was 14 or 15 when they started to get into her head.
  32. I'm sure if you fully understood the background of every ISIS / terrorist you'd feel sympathy for why they are as they are. However we do have the security of other, non-ISIS following UK citizens to think of.
  33. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    But your critical thinking has not been constructed in isolation from your environment. It has been determined, however subconsciously. You cannot prove the non-existence of God, you only come to that conclusion by faith that your method of critical thinking is the correct way of establishing truths. I am an athiest myself btw.
    scummybear likes this.
  34. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Thought quite a bit about this today. It's tricky but I'm quite happy for her to make her own way back. My thoughts about what should happen then, after the baby is born, seem to vary between 'lock her away forever' or 'hang her from a lamppost as a message to all the others'. Can't decide which.

    There are no redeeming features I can see. She'll never be truly deprogrammed. I actually think she was telling the truth to the journalist, naive as she is. It's shocked every deradicalisation I've heard interviewed today as she's so far gone. Once she gets back and gets lawyered up you'll never hear her be so candid again of course. No doubt she'll renounce some of it, serve a couple of years in prison for liking ISIS and then come out. And I'm pretty sure within a decade she'll have gone on to blow herself up or at least murder people in an attack of some sort. It's sad and all so predictable.
  35. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    I’ll go for Russell Brand then.

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