Rugby Union - Summer Tests

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Sting, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    It certainly is. The amount of energy in impacts is colossal and transmitted throughout the entire body resulting in players picking up career ending injuries and worse. This is why there are continual calls to have the schedules slimmed down at club and international level or have a few professional clubs with much larger squads backed by the RFU. The recent changes to carding rules for dangerous tackles and contact to the head are excellent. The message as in ice hockey is getting through that such actions will be severely penalized. However for those players in the earlier ages of the professional sport the indications are worrying hence the class lawsuit being pursued.
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  2. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Scotland will be kicking themselves after yesterday. Outplayed Wales for the most part and undone like Ireland by losing a man. All up for grabs still especially if Ireland beat France in Dublin. The issue surrounding concussion is pertinent again. Johnny Sexton seems to have had more than his fair share as he always gets involved in the rough and tumble round the fringes defensively or trying to make a line break. And sometimes when he has been illegally targetted. The same applies to Leigh Halfpenny who was removed after a HIA in a collision with Danny Graham. One fears for the players long term health though Sexton was quick to criticize a French neurosurgeon who is rightly concerned by all the impacts the fly half has suffered during his career.

    In other news the RFU has voided relegation from the Premiership. The winners of the yet to start Championship will make up a thirteen team league next season. And beyond for the short term future as well. However clubs in the Championship and below are struggling without crowds. Some like Ampthill say they are facing going bust as the money they receive will have to be repaid being a loan not a grant. The work these clubs do in the community cannot be underestimated and their loss would be grievous.
    iamofwfc likes this.
  3. Klein Lust

    Klein Lust Uber Keine

    I am Welsh, but the Wales England game this Saturday should be a straightforward win for England. We were lucky to beat Ireland and Scotland, and England have looked strong so far.

    Obviously I'd love a Wales win, but I can't help thinking we lack quality in too many areas. I'd go for England winning by at least 10 points.
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    So do Scotland get the points for the France being called off ?
  5. Klein Lust

    Klein Lust Uber Keine

    Would be a shame if it does happen, I can imagine they can postpone it for at least a few weeks though;
  6. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    They will postpone it no doubt. Too high a profile match to decide unlike some league game. Sad news is the passing of Gary Halpin the Irish prop at the age of fifty five which is no age at all. Can still remember the Leinster, London Irish and Harlequins storming all action player and his compatriot Nick Popplewell back in the 1995 World Cup. Ireland had a pretty poor side then. Erik Elwood at fly half using his Gaelic football skills and the lightning quick Simon Geoghegan and his shock of blonde hair.

    Irishorn and iamofwfc like this.
  7. Klein Lust

    Klein Lust Uber Keine

    Wales were very lucky to have two tries in the first half, one was a 100%. Knock-on. Plus, with 25 minutes to go, it was anybodies game. Clumsy penalties by England killed the game off.

    I'm not going to gloat, that was the luckiest triple crow ever ever ever.
    reg_varney, iamofwfc and wfc4ever like this.
  8. reg_varney

    reg_varney Reservist

    My Dad was Welsh and my Mum English and I've always supported Wales at Rugby and other Sports but also follow England too as I was born in Watford and brought up in Ricky.

    Well I was not expecting this. I was not feeling confident against a very good England team. However, despite the luck, Wales were very clinical. Took their chances when presented and kept the pressure on the whole game. In the last quarter they were superb.

    Same here, I'm not going to gloat, but it has made the bitter pill result against the South-Coast cheats much much easier to swallow.

    Anyone supporting both Watford and England today, hard lines and hope you have a better Sunday.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  9. onion8837

    onion8837 Reservist

    I am Welsh too so

  10. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Eddie Jones will need a big rethink prior to the summer given quite a few of his players will be with the Lions wherever the matches take place. Possession of the ball is vital in the modern game. The number of aimless kicks ceding the ball is hardly indicative of a progression in style that was being evinced at the start of the tournament. SA and NZ can put their slippers on I suspect for the time being.

    The opener for RWC2023 will be France versus New Zealand at the Stade de France on the 8th of September 2023. England take on Argentina the following day and the Sunday line up includes Wales against Fiji and SA versus Scotland which should be close affairs.
  11. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I see an interviewer has been subject to abuse because of her questions to Owen Farrell regarding the refereeing and second half penalties.

    Most of the comments seem to be focusing on the style of questioning and that 'this isn't football'.

    That it's not but proper Rugby fans certainly have an inferiority complex about it.
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Seems she was after a reaction/quote from them regarding the officials but rugby people don’t tend to criticise them in public even if the ref made a mistake or two.
    iamofwfc likes this.
  13. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Twitter is a cesspit like all social media. She does not deserve to be abused of course. No one does. But her manner after matches with questions in search of a tabloidesque response or soundbite are not worthy of the BBC. Is it her ? Is it the programme director asking her to do this ? I don't know. But asking Alun Wyn Jones whether the officials should have overturned the first half tries. What is he going to say ? Put in him under the microscope and watch him squirm ? It's not his fault the tries were awarded. She should be asking the officials but of course they cannot answer her directly. She is pretty poor at her job.

    And Eddie Butler. Awful commentator as well. Constantly talking on and on. Thinks he is some sort of bard but is dreary to a fault. Andrew Cotter is comfortably the best rugby commentator they have on the BBC. Fingers crossed they get rid of Butler and McLaughlin.
  14. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    It's a no no. When I referee rugby matches I will not see everything but the general consensus is that the referee is right even if he is wrong and pretty much everyone goes with that.

    In my opinion the referee made a mistake but it has to accepted and it's the end of the matter.
    miked2006, iamofwfc and wfc4ever like this.
  15. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Having seen Bournemouth’s behaviour at the weekend, I’m starting to understand why they’re so keen to distant the two sports.
  16. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    It's a bit sad we are discussing this rather than actual rugby. However much Owen is disliked by some (nothing to do with his league background I would hope) he does incredibly well to keep his cool here like Alun Wyn Jones. Looking to provoke, obtain a reaction and being disappointed when not getting one. It was an embarrassing interview. The BBC should be asking themselves why the tabloid nature of questioning ?

    She even then went on to tell Eddie Jones that Owen found the referees performance poor. He had said nothing but deep down of course he probably felt hard done by. Standards at the BBC seem to have slipped in many areas from filling the flagship channel with audience chasing drivel and filling the news with celebrity led stories while reducing and moving serious output to BBC4 and sometimes BBC2. They can do better. Mind you Martin Johnson slagging the referee off was also a bit near the knuckle. WR will get the officials to sit down with Guzere and work with him to improve his decision making.

    iamofwfc likes this.
  17. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I see the ref had admitted his errors.

    England actually recovered from those errors and drew level.

    What cost them was giving away 3 penalties in quick succession leading to 9 points for Wales .
    iamofwfc likes this.
  18. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Not a great weekend for referees in general.

    Of course the penalties cost them, but if they had a lead they could play more defensive rugby and likely wouldn't have given them away.
    iamofwfc and wfc4ever like this.
  19. reg_varney

    reg_varney Reservist

    John Inverdale completes the ghastly triumverate. He comes across as being genuinely creepy in a similar manner to various 1970s BBC presenters.
  20. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Fully expect to Saracens to win the division but a surprise opening loss in a deserved defeat to the Cornish Pirates. The article discusses the RFU trying to cut off funding to the second tier which is a pretty short sighted move given the number of academy players that start out playing professionally in this division. As it mentions in France the Top 14, Pro D1 and ProD2 are all getting a healthy amount of funding. Only at the Federale level will funding decline substantially.
  21. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Narrow win for England. Gallic magic seems to have returned with a wonderful pair of half backs. Wales march onto the Grand Slam decider with the result at Twickenham meaning it is all but certain they will be champions. Italy were poor. Raises questions once more about their inclusion.

    They do have a new five year TV deal with the rest of the unions involved in the Pro 14 so it is most unlikely they are going anywhere anytime soon. And no playoff between them and the eternal champions of the ENC Georgia. On balance comparing the two nations Italy still have failed to develop the sport into a wider base. Schools rugby is non existent which is essential to develop players. Georgia have showed great results in junior rugby recently which will translate into the senior level in time.

    They have a far better infrastructure which is on a par with the other five unions and a huge growth in junior playing numbers which translates into schools and clubs. Argentina for instance have been propelled in the last two decades by a more professional directed approach at club level. Their junior programmes have grown and grown so that a club like Regatta or Hindu can field several junior sides (players under the age of twelve) every week. It simply is not happening in Italy. You need a high base of juniors coached well from an early age to prosper as a national side.

    That said it took France three decades to make an impression in the old Five Nations.But that progression was allied to increasing junior numbers and clubs. They are in a pickle and the Italian union needs to really up it's development programme.
  22. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    England disappointing against a strong Ireland side.

    Wales set for another Grand Slam?

    Very much unexpected.
  23. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Aren't we supposed to be good at rugby?
    I have a friend who used to play for Wasps and then Met Police.
    I watched him once at OMTs. Frightening game and he was out of trouble on the wing.
    They ruined our pitch too when Saracens played on it.
    wfc4ever likes this.
  24. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    We are too inconsistent and set in our ways I think to make the required changes to improve us.

    Poor Wales.

    Lost it at the end.

    One less man cost them but credit to Wales.
  25. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Time for Jones to be replaced me thinks!!!
  26. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Jones has one of the biggest player pools to choose from so when England disappoint it is only natural for the coach to receive criticism. Some of player selections are a bit odd. They missed Jack Willis for instance and he does need to speed up the introduction of younger players into the team prior to RWC2023 but that is the target. If he balls that up then fair enough. And you have to give credit to Ireland as well. Magnificent performance at the end a Six Nations where overall they will be disappointed. Also hit by key injuries and inconsistency.

    Wales will be the ones kicking themselves. Not a class ic Six Nations for any but still a Grand Slam is a Grand Slam. Very poor game management. At seventy minutes a try score up and with France a man down just be pragmatic. Play in their half and kick it long. Credit to France they forced the penalties and possession to an extent but still most teams in that situation would go long when Sheedy kicked rather aimlessly.

    France also need to have a word with themselves. The laws clearly state contact to the eye area whether deliberate or intentional is a red card as we have had serious eye injuries in the past. Willemse can have no complaints and it is pretty poor of Galthie to claim there was some sort of refereeing conspiracy or ineptitude. Luke Pearce was excellent and should be an able replacement for Nigel Owens.

    The less said about Italy the better. Shambolic. However they will remain in the 6N for reasons mentioned before but I am sure despite recent results between Italy and Georgia that they will be overtaken by the Lelos given the far greater numbers playing the sport at childrens level there. It is the national sport now given that football in Georgia has been appallingly bad in recent years. Georgia u20 have some very impressive results at recent junior World Cups which should translate to the senior level at some point. FIR desperately need to get more kids either by a schools programme or clubs into the sport.
  27. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    I should add that the same friend had his jaw broken in five places and spent three months drinking liquid food from a straw after a tackle on tour in Canada.
    Not a week went by without there being an ambulance at Woollams when the St Albans Boys were playing rugby.
    Makes me wince when they do that scrummy thing.
    Brutal sport.
  28. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    It's not for the faint hearted. Played league in Australia and in all honesty is worse than playing union.
  29. reg_varney

    reg_varney Reservist

    Absolutely gutted. Still feeling crap the day after. Feels like the Sheff Wed game when the title slipped through our fingers right at the end. Except Sheff Wed were not as good an opponent as France were against Wales.

    So, so close. France just threw caution to the wind in the last 10 minutes and it paid off.
  30. reg_varney

    reg_varney Reservist

    Sheedy showing his inexperience. He will learn and be better for it. A real pressure cooker experience.

    Refereeing team was excellent in a very difficult match to manage. One small quibble. A penalty try should have been awarded for that maul. It was moving at such at pace and was so close enough that it was inevitable they would score. I've never understood the reluctance to award a penalty try in international rugby. Surprisingly few are given.

    The less said about Galthie and his comments the better. Shows a complete lack of glass. Gallic prat.

    Scotland are finally starting to show some promise, however, Italy seem to be going nowhere. Standing still while everyone else improves. I wonder whether they should have a combined team comprised of Northern Hemisphere players outside British Isles and France. Like the Minor Counties cricket team.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    Smudger likes this.
  31. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    You can say that again!
    I hope you're still in one piece.
  32. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Jones is getting a lot of flak at the moment but all coaches have their sticky patches. There have been changes to the backroom staff such as Matt Proudfoot coming in and Steve Borthwick (whose contribution has been overlooked) leaving. The Sarries players are not up to speed and more kids need to come into the side. When I say kids I mean those with little experience.

    Time surely is up for Youngs and Farrell ? Genge looks average as well. It was nice to see Max Malins picked but what of the others that have impressed recently in the Premiership ? Ollie Thorley, Alex Dombrandt and Ben Spencer ? They have been on the fringes but they deserve to be given a fixture. You see how Wales brought in Zammit-Rees Thurleys team mate, France have given the younger players their head as well. Ireland have acknowledged that players like Cian Healy for instance may not be around for another cycle.

    @luke_golden MLR kicked off in North America under COVID restrictions. Twelve teams in 2 conferences west and east with expansion teams to join. The Toronto Arrows being the sole Canadian side at present. LA Giltinis joined MLR this season as Colorado Raptors exited. The Giltinis named after a cocktail will play at the LA Colisseum which compared to the other home stadiums is some ten times bigger in capacity. But smaller venues are more intimate, less expensive to run and it will take time for MLR to grow audiences and spectators. TV deals exist with CBS and TSN.


    I sincerely hope it in time is a roaring success despite the difficult times of it's birth. One that many experienced internationals will arrive and pass on their expertise to juniors. Ditto for all the coaches coming in from abroad. And with quite a few South Africans who did not quite make the Bok grade could naturalize to play for the Eagles. A short term solution to improve them but MLR being the long term one. It will also help Canadian rugby given the mess made by the body running Canadian rugby in the era of professionalism by concentrating what talent they have into three future teams that is Toronto, BC and Ontario based and allowing the players to be full time professionals.

    These opportunities also apply to a number of players from the weaker South Americans namely Chile and Brazil with a sprinkling of more experienced Uruguayans. One must remember union dominated for many years before American football took over when it became professionals and union remained an amateur sport. Most of the best union players turned to American football and that sport became entrenched in the schools and collegiate system not rugby union. Given the right circumstances the US could become a power in the sport in time showing the same level of progress as it has done with association football.

    A number of rule changes are being trialled in MLR with the sanction of US Rugby who oversee the competition. World Rugby are not happy but may look at the results to see if they benefit the sport. The scrum reset rule may be problematic in certain conditions limiting the chance a referee can move or ask a scrum to reform to be stable. And some place kickers might be miffed out at missing on two points a pop under the posts.


    They could do more work on their youtube channel with highlights:

    reg_varney likes this.
  33. reg_varney

    reg_varney Reservist

    Each team could have a nominating kicker on field who would be credited 2 points for each 7 point try scored. That way their own personal point tallies would remain intact.
    Smudger likes this.
  34. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    New saliva test to diagnose concussion will be trialled in at some point soon in elite competition after a successful trial to identify biomarkers namely sncRNAs in saliva taken from players having suffered a head or body injury compared to samples taken from the same players prior to the start of a season.

    This could equally be applied to HIA's in football, ice hockey and the like. Incredibly pertinent given yet another player has passed from dementia in association football and another Dan Scarbrough a former Saracen has joined the lawsuit against WR, the RFU and WRU having been diagnosed with early onset dementia.
  35. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well done Scotland .

    Very impressive at the end.

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