This is the crux of it, for me. I'd much rather the success we've had, with a few stupid mistakes (Gray, Pussetto, contract fiascos, no new CB in PL years), than the alternative. There really can't be many clubs our size that have had a more enjoyable decade than us, and there's countless that have experienced much much worse. Times are good!
How do our debt levels compare to other clubs in similar situations to us? Bournemouth and Sheffield United, for example. Genuine question, I've got no idea how we stack up
I'm all good thats why I acknowledged my own post in the first place as being too unaware of others feelings. All the best to you all. It's been a blast.
Without looking at exact numbers the difference is Bournemouth and Sheff Utd will both have debt to their benefactors. Problem we have is we have external debt, and also one of those creditors is actively looking to move out of football financing.
I think as fans it makes sense to ignore the club's finances. I have enough to worry about with my own!
Yeah guess so. Edit on Sheff Utd they have just repurchased their stadium and training ground after the ownership change so their finances might be a bit fragile right now as well, albeit what they have done will help them longer term.
Sorry if this was already recently elaborated on here and I've forgotten, but who are the creditors looking to move out of football financing, and why are they?
Its someone called 23 Capital. They got spooked by impact of Covid on football clubs so are winding down that aspect. We have agreements with them so we are okay from that perspective but clearly they wouldn’t be open to refinancing/extra finance. I think we owed them about £70 million as at June 20 so that amount will have reduced over the last 12 months.
So if we get Troy and Andre off the books and flogged Sarr for close to what we paid we'd be pretty much debt free?
Apparently we ranked 7th out of 20 for our relegation season so not as bad as most but still a huge loss: https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co...pared-financially-norwich-bournemouth-5758958
No unfortunately that is only one creditor (albeit the biggest one). We also have a number of other smaller external creditors and the other big one is transfer instalments owed to other clubs. Gray/Deeney off books will be a big difference though if we do go down again compared to last time.
That’s one year losses though so needs to be viewed in context of accumulated debt and turnover. A £47m loss for Arsenal is less concerning that a £36m loss for us (for example).
Well this is where the rich benefactor that many premier clubs have comes in. Other clubs will have similar debts but much will be owed to the owner (eg Bournemouth) so it’s softer finance than ours, may have better (or no) interest and is more flexible. Each club would need to be considered on its individual merits.
We just need Gino to flog us to some American who changes our name to London Hornets and we're all good.
Some valid points there. I would also add a couple of poor decisions not based upon what they have done but what they haven't done. Not flogging Doucoure when he was at his peak was a bad move, as was keeping on Capoue. Much as Capoue was a gifted player, don't under estimate just how bad an influence he was around the place. Him finally leaving was a major catalyst to our run last season - HMSPTL could well have been a reality if he was moved on 6 months earlier.
Given that football seems to operate like no other industry with seemingly endless supplies of money sloshing around, and with money so cheap to borrow at the moment, surely being 100 million in the red is no big deal? Particularly given that we could halve our overdraft if we flogged Sarr?
We sadly wouldn't half our overdraft unless the buying club for Sarr paid the £50m in full (which isn't going to happen).
We are fine if we stay up. If we go down at least we have some high earners off the books at end of season, but still would be a bit grim I think if no immediate rebound.
There was no panic in my post? Was just making a point. Although I do find the line that was shouldn’t be worried about the finances a bit strange. Why? Because we can’t affect it?
But we can no more affect very few things about the club? Style of play, Troy Deeney’s future, Gomes being preferred over Foster for the cup run….yet these pages are filled with opinion on it, including from yourself. If anything, talking about the finances of the club is the one thing people should concern themselves with because it is the one thing that affects almost everything that happens at the club!
I think that is a valid point. It's not worth worrying about things that you can't control. Finance is a concern that just about every club without a billionaire backer has now though and I think it is only going to get worse. I think there is a valid argument for not trying to compete with the club's that have limitless financing but instead look for a sustainable model such as Norwich that keeps the business financially viable. It's depressing but that's the reality of the Premier League imho.
They're paying the price for far too many high price errors. How long this will take is beyond me but it's certainly worrying. Let's be honest we can't even give some of the **** away for nothing! Rightly so that no clubs have come in for them too.
Ahh fair enough! But I don’t worry in the sense that I lose sleep over it or anything vaguely like that. Just in the sense of it’s something I concern myself with in my supporting of the club! In reality, if we go bang financially and fall down to L2, it won’t affect me one bit in my day to day life! And Troy will still be here.
I agree, in hindsight, not selling Doucoure & Capoue earlier were mistakes. But it is a difficult call to make in real time. If most of us feel that we are going to be relegated this season then selling Sarr right now (and perhaps Hughes and Chalobah) is a no brainer. However I will be furious if we let him go now because I still have some hope. The same was true of Doucoure and Capoue. I really hoped they would find their form again in the EPL or Capoue would rip the championship a new one. I think Gino has made mistakes, especially with the length and amounts of some of the contracts dished out, but I think most decisions were made with the best intentions for WFC.
Someone elsewhere printed the team sheet for the first game we had from the last time we were promoted. Is it really that much better than what we have now in terms of quality? Id argue a bit less. They did well with a very defensive coach. I think a defensive coach will happen fairly quickly if we don't win a lot of points in the first 2-3 months. I would expect a neat and tidy Italian
