Nathaniel Chalobah & Harry Winks: England call ups

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Maninblack, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Ray Knight

    Ray Knight First Year Pro

    I think we have all become a bit jaundiced by the England set up and the underachievement at tournaments. We also all got a bit excited by the Chalobah call-up to have our hopes dashed by events. However I quite like Southgate and his trust in youth. Rather we go down trying to play football rather than an overly cautious approach. Watford will always be my first love. Still think Robson should have started with Barnes against Argentina at Mexico 86', instead of our pedestrian midfielders. Wish them well but not getting worked up by a Wcup in Putinland.
  2. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    Maybe I’m just immune to the hysteria now or manage to avoid it. The last World Cup I got hyped up about was 2002 when I thought we actually had very good players who put a bit of heart into the game. Maybe between 1990 and 2002 I was just in the target age range for the ‘England brand’ and I’ve fallen away from it due to age.

    Rooney never became what he promised at 18 but was never one of my heros.
  3. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    The Old buggers at the FA are just too scared to appoint an inspiring coach like lovable rouge Harry...........
    Godfather likes this.
  4. J.B

    J.B First Team

    Chumlax and GoingDown like this.
  5. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    I love supporting England, always have done, always will do. I do find it strange that there's so much venom against those that continue to support the team through thick and thin, but each to their own.

    Kane is world class, no one else is, yet.
    iamofwfc, KelsoOrn and Burnsy like this.
  6. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    Pretty much my feelings in a nutshell, or well worded post if cliches are not your thing. I don’t doubt it is still a great honour to play for your country but it just doesn’t seem to come across quite so much these days. Doesn’t help players are withdrawn from the squad with horrific injuries like a splinter. I know this is club driven but all helps to reduce the importance and interest in the national squad. That and we’ve been **** for getting on two decades.
  7. Kinga

    Kinga Academy Graduate

    Imagine being stupid enough to try to argue that structural racism doesn't exist in every corner of England.
  8. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    If we lined up:

    Walker Stones P. Jones Rose
    Henderson Chalobah
    Rashford Kane Sterling

    And took Loftus Cheek, Tom Davies, Joe Gomez, Calvert Lewin etc then I might get excited.

    However it's going to be ******* Jagielka, Cahill, Wilshere, Livermore, Defoe, Joe Hart, Walcott, Townsend, Welbeck and so forth. Leave them at home, there's nothing to gain.
    Otter and Godfather like this.
  9. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    True, you never see black players in the England squad.
    Forzainglese and iamofwfc like this.
  10. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    I'm with you apart from Henderson. He's the absolute pits.
    foxywfc likes this.
  11. Johnny Todd Sings

    Johnny Todd Sings First Year Pro

    How have England underachieved? They are regularly ranked about 10th in the world. Being 10th best means you would expect them to be knocked out in the round of 16 or the quarter-finals.
    iamofwfc likes this.
  12. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I'm with you apart from Alli, maybe this is unpopular but I don't think he has the guile or playmaking ability to play in that role in a 4-3-3; he basically plays as a second striker for Spurs, and he isn't even doing that very well at this present moment. I can also see Alli and his ******, petulant on pitch attitude becoming the new Beckham/Rooney and getting a red card for a stupid lash-out, becoming public enemy number one as we crash out of the round of 16/last match of the group stages and turning to a life of masked crime as a supervillain.

    Lallana there for me.
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  13. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    I'm with Chum, Lallana should be included
    Ray Knight likes this.
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    But it didn't exist in the context of the original post of this thread in the way being suggested. Don't start inflammatory arguments where there is zero need for it. Especially on a topic as hot as racism.
    iamofwfc likes this.
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Alli where Henderson is...Lallana in the resulting space...and Maguire for Jones and I agree.
    Godfather likes this.
  16. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Did have Maguire where Jones is but I think if Jones get a full season of big game football under his belt as well as lessons from Mourinho then he'll probably pip Maguire.

    I like Lallana a lot but just as much as Alli is annoying, think his aggression may actually help us.
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  17. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Spent far too many, albeit very enjoyable years at tournaments watching England fail to get too excited , but can't deny that the current crop of young players are as good as those from other major teams .

    Kane is amongst the best already and will become the best if he carries on like this .

    Delle Ali has proved himself over two season to be more prolific than Mbappe who has ever only played in a minor league .

    Sterling and Rashford are both young but on a trajectory to become exceptional.

    Dier and hopefully Chalobah as the 2 CDMs.

    Plenty of back five youngsters from Pickford , Stones , etc and then Walker , Rose , Clyne as older but very decent FBs .

    Things are certainly in place to starting mentioning the Golden Generation words .

    Just don't mention the words in anything other than a concealed whisper in case of potential future embarrassment.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
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  18. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Agree with that apart from Henderson who is bang average .

    Dier is far better and younger and on an upward trajectory .

    Also got Walker Peters and Trent what's his name from Liverpool as RBs for the future .

    Have to say that Trippier is also an incredibly efficient footballer .
    wfcSinatra likes this.
  19. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    I still support the national team but not with the same vigour as I once did.
    Cassetti's Beard and iamofwfc like this.
  20. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Agree. You just know the usual tried and failed suspects will litter the squad unfortunately.
  21. Jellyman

    Jellyman Squad Player

    This is a silly thread.
  22. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    If Walcott goes I will be dumbfounded.
  23. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Too late.
  24. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    And you're an axolotl ...
  25. J.B

    J.B First Team

    Compare Alli and Mbappe's respective performances in the CL and for their countries. Alli is a good PL player (ignoring his awful start to this campaign), but is too limited and naive to make it at the highest level. Mbappe will without a doubt become the best striker in the world in the next few years. The things he is doing as an 18 year old and the stage he is doing it on almost defy belief.
  26. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Are you being serious ?

    Surely Im being wooshed.
  27. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Golden Generation
  28. Jellyman

    Jellyman Squad Player

    Fancied a change innit.
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  29. J.B

    J.B First Team

    He has no tactical discipline, struggles when asked to play in a system that doesn't involve him having a free role, gives the ball away constantly, displays erratic decision making, has little influence on the overall game other than popping up with a goal (a good attribute nonetheless, especially when it is as regular as it was in his first two seasons with Spurs) and has an awful disciplinary record.

    He will never be one of the best players in the world, whereas Mbappe probably already is.
  30. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    If you say so.
  31. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    To be fair, Lampard & Gerrard couldn't get us to a Semi Final and Alli isn't any better than them.
  32. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    Surely our ranking itself is often underachieving. Football is our number one sport. We have supposedly the “best” or at least “most competitive” league in the world yet we routinely fail to produce a single team capable of even competing with the best. With all respect to Wales, even they have managed to get far closer to winning something than we have of late.

    Genuine question marks need to be made of those coaching the team, those involved with selection (and let’s not be niaive enough to think this is only the coach who does this) and the players who are very meh about playing for their country.

    I’d rather have 11 average players earning average money working their butts off for the shirt with someone like Dyche at the helm because at the moment as they’d probably go as far next year.
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    To be fair we’ve got the 11 average players and Southgate is a journeyman manager. What more can you ask for!??
  34. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    In his PL career, he’s been booked 19 times and sent off once. That includes England games. That’s in 99 games, inc England games. So his awful disciplinary record is a red card in one of every 100 games. And a yellow card, roughly 1 in 5 games. How does that constitute awful for a young midefielder? He’s 21, is a regular goal scoring midefielder for a team that has finished each of the seasons that he’s been involved in, in a top 3 position. Why don’t you ask Harry Kane who regularly feeds off his assists if he has little influence on the game?

    Show some stats that back up your appraisal that is frankly so far out of keeping with the general footballing public. Your comparisons with Mbappé fall flat as they play in different positions. Rashford is the England player most akin to Mbappé. Dele Alli is more in line with a Pogba or Bernardo Silva and he sits quite comfortably when compared with them.
  35. reids

    reids Squad Player

    I posted this on Reddit the other day, but it fits here as well: I feel for England to be successful (or at least improve on what's happened recently), we need to emulate the best English sides that have the most players eligible for England. Spurs are that team.

    They're filled with current England internationals so would make a superb starting point, especially when you take into consideration both City and Liverpool have similar aspects of play. This means you should have a decent pool of players that are capable in this certain philosophy and should fit right in. That being said there's plenty of players in that England squad that do not fit that style (Hart, Livermore + Lingard for some examples) and should, therefore, miss out for more suitable younger alternatives such as Winks, Tom Davies, Trent Alexander Arnold, Calvert-Lewin etc.

    We play 3 at the back possession football, with a lineup similar to this: (swap Bertrand for Rose when he's fit). Then we'll see some results.
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