It's a bit of a non argument to be honest, in the context of the Phillips deal anyway. As I've said, Liverpool look to have decided he wasn't going to any EPL side so it's not a stick to beat Pozzo or Duxbury with. Bayat is a stick, probably multiple sticks and clubs with embedded nails to whack them with but, in general, no transfer is a guarantee of getting a better player unless you can constantly up the amount you spend. That isn't going to happen at Watford with this owner. Until they go the club will continue to flounder due to their haphazard transfer dealings and because more and more clubs are being taken over with bigger money pots.
No. You’ve just guessed that Liverpool have decided he couldn’t go to a premier league team and stated it as fact.
We almost had the best defence in championship history last season, yet look at what a shambles they are in the Premier League. As we know to our cost, playing for one of the top teams in the Championship would be absolutely awful development for a young centre back as it isn’t any sort of meaningful test compared to what he’d learn in the Premier League with us. Your theory is deeply flawed and has no basis to it other than you guessing.
I don't think writing "..Liverpool look to have decided.." is stating anything as fact anymore than saying "..I suspect this is Pozzo not wanting to do a deal where he doesn’t have possibility to make a profit.." My original post was putting forward a suggestion, based on the player going to a Championship side over any of the top flight clubs here and in Germany, that it's not down to Watford's owner this time. Anyway, we're getting bogged down in semantics on what is a seriously dull subject - a non transfer! - on an even more dull last day in the transfer window. (We've signed 15 Mogi Bayat clients while I've typed this haven't we!)
Everyone is guessing as to why transfers do or don't come off but the default position, it appears, on here is it must be Pozzo's fault. The player ending up at Bournemouth and not West Ham, Newcastle, Burnley, Frankfurt or us (all the clubs he was publicly linked with) suggests, this time, we were never going to get him. I then guessed - shock horror - at a possible reason. And to be honest, with what has been reported I think it's a more likely reason than all of the owners and coaches of the previously mentioned clubs being too tight or unable to do a deal with Liverpool. You said it yourself, half a season in the Premier League would be better than the Championship yet that's where Liverpool have sent him. So it suggests another reason.
I think the far more obvious answer is financial. Plenty of people on here are actually second guessing whether he’s better than what we have, so would he be a starter at West Ham or Leicester? Both of those clubs may have enquired but is he really a priority for them, or indeed good enough to pay what Liverpool wanted if he’s not even good enough for us? West Ham are pushing for CL, but here are some Watford fans saying he’s probably not good enough for us. Something doesn’t add up there does it? Out of all those clubs we’re by far in the most need, but I think it’s fairly obvious we didn’t want to pay what was asked.
Aaaand we've had our first hint at a 'the Pozzo did everything they possibly could whilst managing to leave exactly the same key positions empty as last window, and the one before that, and the one before that (repeat ad infinitum), heroically negotiating with many appropriate players right down to the wire but failing to land every single one through no fault of their own' of this particular failed window.
Look, poor Pozzo can’t win, the clubs he’s up against are either too big or too small, he tries his best he’s really does. Why would Liverpool want to send a player to work with ultra experienced ex Liverpool manager Roy Hodgson famed for his relentless defensive drills, organisation and solidity, when he they can send him to the championship, to a manager who sent Fulham backwards but has some nice coats. Gino doesn’t stand a chance.
So I put forward a differing opinion on one transfer and I'm absolving the owner of all ills? Okay. He doesn't trust him with Rogers (Leicester have had problems with injuries at the back), or Moyes (looking to reinforce c/b options supposedly), or Dyche (replacement for Tarkoswki?) either then? Okay. Err, he's joined Bournemouth hasn't he? And as I said to the other poster, I'm putting forward a possible reason - an opinion, as you say - as to why he hasn't come to us or Burnley if you want to discount their rivals of West Ham & Leicester. I say rivals, City are over 20 points behind Liverpool and West Ham 11. I don't think him going to either of them was ever going to hinder their own league position but by going to Bournemouth it's more likely (opinion alert) that he'll play more. No, it may not be a guaranteed part of the loan but (another opinion) it may well be, just to get a player who has failed to have 50 1st team appearances at the age of 24 some actual playing time.
I gave you the reasons for West Ham and Leicester but you didn’t answer them. Phillips is apparently not good enough for us according to some of our fans, yet he’s good enough for West Ham and Leicester to meet Liverpools asking price just to be a back up? If he’s not good enough for us, why are a potential CL team going to be that worried about signing him? Do you really think West Ham and Leicester went all out to sign him?
I don’t think he says Pozzo did everything he could it’s just we’re not relentlessly hammering the owner. I think most know we need defenders and we’re all disappointed that we’re not seeing better defenders coming and obviously that falls to the owner. But this constant battering is just a bit tedious and it makes us sound a bit like spoiled children. I’m not massively pro Pozzo and I know some are desperate for him to go and everything is his fault but I do wonder if the grass will be greener.
In fairness, I'll admit I'm being slightly hyperbolic for comedic effect in your case - I did say 'a hint' though!
And it's not just defenders we need - we just need them the most of all. It's not a great distinction, though.
I shared the article earlier (by the reliable Simon Jones) that said that Phillips wanted to just play football (given his career trajectory so far) and felt most confident of getting the most game time at Bournemouth. Don’t really get why this back and forth is still ongoing.
We want a defender, we want a keeper, we want a right back, we want a striker, don’t want Kayembe, don’t want this, don’t want that. If you’re a parent you’ll know what this sounds like
It’s mainly just mental gymnastics for why Liverpool would send him to Bournemouth over us if we genuinely wanted him/were willing to pay what Bournemouth did. We all know like 99.9% of failed Pozzo deals it will be because he won’t pay what needed paying.
I've been very vocal before here that I am, in fact, not a parent - but this is rank stupidity. Unless your child has a stated expectation of maintaining a certain level of professional competition, then this is nothing more than a diversionary excuse of a red herring.
I didn't see your post and if I had I wouldn't have posted what I did. @a19tgg - does LeedsOrn's post put an end to this? Oh, no, I've just seen your post where you've stated an opinion as fact. Goodnight all, I've got some rice I need to count (RIP Sean Lock)
The article in question: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ps-set-join-Bournemouth-loan-rest-season.html
If we offered a loan deal to Liverpool and Bournemouth offered a loan deal to Liverpool, and Phillips told his club he felt more assured he'd get consistent game time at Bournemouth, why is it a surprise he's been sent to Bournemouth?
Slightly off topic and not necessarily aimed at this bloke but I was trying to think how many young players that LFC have sold have actually gone on to be successful? I struggled but I'm sure there must be a few. They seem to go for top money (at least relative to age, experience and talent, see Brewster and our very own Sinclair) but either disappear or at best be OK in the lower leagues. Best I could come up with was Solanke but still a big stretch to say he has done much for the big money paid.
So Liverpool do want to sell him! Well, I got that wrong. And it was him wanting guaranteed football, not Liverpool pushing for it, I got that wrong too! Huh. But it wasn't Pozzo's fault we didn't get the player. Who'd a thunk it! I guess it was that 0.01% of transfers where he wasn't at fault. Amazing. Damn it, I've lost count now.. 1 grain of rice, 2 grains of rice, 3 grains...
Yeah, it's few as it stands, with those like Ibe and Sheyi Ojo really stinking the ranks out - as you say, Solanke could be eventually coming to change that up slightly, although we have no idea whether he will translate to the Prem this time around (should they indeed get promoted/he get bought).
Ah. The entitled attack comes out, although credit for rebranding it as spoiled children. Maybe people are just fed up with the same crap happening year after year after year and the same justifications put up by the same people (and let’s face if you are a chief protagonist).
I didn’t justify the lack of defenders, I said it was disappointing not to have improved that area. I have stated many times that they have got things wrong. What I won’t do is slam them for everything that goes wrong. I may not like how we do things in regards to managers but it worked for quite a while, worked last season and may work this season although I don’t think we’re good enough. I don’t like that agent we seem to use a lot but we’ve had some decent players as well as some rubbish ones much like you get whoever you use. I don’t like Duxbury, he just seems to be a smarmy ****. I do like the success we’ve had, the players we’ve seen that 10 years ago wouldn’t have set foot in our hovel of a ground. I like the fact our ground looks decent and what they’ve done for GT, Elton and most importantly the NHS. And yes this want, want, want attitude is like a spoiled child.
Kabasele being fit is basically the same as a new signing. WTE returning from his rejuvenation at AFCON as a goal-getting defender just adds to our depth. We’ll be fine. Yours in transfer news, AL #TheAthletic
Of course there has been, I'm not blinkered into thinking they're perfect. Far from it! My original post was pointing out it didn't add up, to me, being their fault this time. I'm never getting this rice counted am I.
