[NOT HAPPENING] Nat Phillips

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by hornetboy1, Jan 6, 2022.

  1. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I hope that's tongue-in-cheek?
     
  2. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Yes but very few have seen this fellow play due to the fact he hasn't played very much!
     
  3. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Always
     
  4. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I get the fact we need defenders, absolutely we do but not sure why people are upset about this one not happening. Why, apart from us apparently, has no top division club gone for him?
     
  5. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    But you have seen our defenders play right? Who would your money be on being better?
     
  6. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Not defending, questioning the uproar about not paying £7m+ for an uproven defender. I desperately want us to sign a defender but I want one that will definitely improve us
     
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Don't get me wrong - I'm no huge fan of Phillips. And I didn't like the idea of spending £15m on him. But I think the number of games he has played is a bit of a red herring too - he has played plenty of games at the top level and in Europe too. If he was available for loan and only wanted an assurance of plenty of first team football, then that shouldn't be beyond us given the shape we are in.

    I think the feeling around this would be different had he been going somewhere today for the quoted £15m.

    I don't understand the unproven line? Plenty of football in Germany and plenty of football for a Top 4 club in both the PL and CL.
     
  8. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Yeah, in non-glib reply to your original message, it's not that people are freaking out demanding Nat Phillips, it's the fact that we've been linked with him throughout the window, brought in no net upgrade in his position, and originally passed on him reportedly because we weren't prepared to pay what he was valued at (hardly suprising, or potentially unfair given his high valuation). Now we find out that not only is he available on loan, so that fee is no longer required, but that he is signing on that basis for a club in the division below us, who cannot even offer him the Premier League football you've pointed out he needs, seems like it doesn't add up.

    I did say in my initial post that if seems crazy if we aren't working on any other of the potential Prem CB loans, and obviously, I stand by that - but we're not hearing anything as it stands.

    It's not that Nat Phillips is the messiah, it's that the rest of our centre backs are either so bad, or so unprepared, at this level, that despite his meagre appearances, he still very likely represents a higher calibre of player who gives us a better (still poor) shot at staying up than if we didn't bring him in. If we've done that in favour of someone else, fairplay. If we haven't, and just let a player who would in all likelihood improve us and we wouldn't even have had to pay a transfer fee for go straight past us to a team who objectively should be much less of a draw in this situation, then there's essentially no excuse.

    Also, I've just read your most recent post, and we're not talking about paying £7m plus at this point - we're talking about a loan. More to the point, if your metric for 'definitely improving us' for a fee of around £7m doesn't include Nat Phillips, I'm really not sure who you'd be considering good enough/worth ever bringing in, given any player's cost/proven ability ratio.
     
    luke_golden and Knight GT like this.
  9. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I would certainly like to know what has happened since we made a bid and if we were involved in any loan discussions as it does seem a strange move. Maybe he feels they are more likely to be in the EPL next year which he would have a point about
     
  10. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    wfcmoog likes this.
  11. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think it’s pretty easy to understand the frustration.

    On one hand you get the excuses that we can’t compete with other PL clubs if we’re interested in the same players, such as Olise etc, so the owners get a pass on those ones.

    Then a player who we were definitely interested in and would’ve undoubtedly improved us goes on loan to a championship club (and we’re not even utilising any of our domestic loan spots) and then suddenly the ‘can’t compete excuse is off the table’, so miraculously instead it’s because he’s only 24, and not played many games for Liverpool so clearly not that good. Owners get a pass again.

    When are people going to wake up?
     
  12. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Says that they rejected our loan to buy bid, so we either couldn't offer him enough football, or we offered a stupidly small amount of money
     
  13. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

  14. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    From that report, it genuinely seems like we let the 'won't develop another club's player' line of thinking get in the way, which would just be so stupid.
     
  15. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I’m surprised we’re so worried about that as we are incapable of developing our own so it’s hardly a problem.
     
    Jersey Hornet72 likes this.
  16. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    People will still defend it though.
     
  17. reids

    reids First Team

    Heidar likes this.
  18. Heidar

    Heidar Squad Player

    Yeah that isn't a "snip" for a 6 month loan.

    That's an outright all-or-nothing gamble from Bournemouth.

    I hope it's the "nothing".
     
  19. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    It’s a snip as a percentage of the prize money for being in the PL next season.
     
  20. reids

    reids First Team

    It is but there's no guarantee that he'd be our saviour - he's hugely inexperienced for his age and whilst he did well in his half a season at Liverpool last season he wouldn't have the same quality of players around him/protecting him that he had at Liverpool.
     
    Heidar likes this.
  21. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Someone in the tweet makes a point .

    Does our lack of stability hamper us ?

    Our reputation for a number of reasons on and off the pitch will be very negative .
     
  22. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    This touches on the debate we've had on here again in the past few days, really, about whether the way the Pozzo have behaved when it comes to transfers/offers in recent years affects the willingness of other clubs and ownership groups to deal with us, and whether that leads us to be forced to rely predominantly on random free punts from nowhere and the Mogal's stable of mentally questionable mavericks.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  23. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    At this stage no player could guarantee to be our saviour, but we’ve not kept a clean sheet for over 30 games and our only attempt to remedy that at CB is an internal shuffle from Udinese. £1.7m is a tiny gamble in the grand scheme of things, and if we go down it’s not like we’re on the hook for anything either. I don’t think I’m alone in thinking we’ve not done anywhere near enough to remedy our defensive issues and this is something that couldn’t exactly have made things any worse, but equally there was plenty of upside to it.
     
    Jumbolina, Chumlax and wfcmoog like this.
  24. Oscar calling

    Oscar calling Squad Player

    Or more likely the player wanted to play for a Premier League team next season not us in the Championship.
     
  25. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I'm not on twitter, but I bet you there are dozens who will have tweeted 'we need x or y, ' but will tweet 'job done' when the window closes with neither.
     
  26. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    It's a loan - so next season needn't have even been a factor for him to consider in this window.
     
  27. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I think because they suspect that this one not happening means none will be happening.

    Fine if this one doesn't happen because a better target has been secured, but if you believe that then respectfully, are you high?
     
  28. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I think for Bournemouth, £1.7 mil for a team who are likely to go up, for a young defender with the potential to improve is a great deal, for us, who are less likely to be in the Premier League next season, it would be a bit more of a gamble, but I don't think £1.5m is the difference between us going bankrupt or not
     
  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    With a view to buy if they go up which is far from certain

    Maybe for 15 million
     
  30. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    But it seems he was now available for loan for some kind of wages + fee arrangement and we either didn’t try or we were rejected because nobody except Bayet will touch our owner. If it’s the latter the damage is done. If it’s the former then it sounds like Pozzo put in a bid knew wouldn’t be accepted to give the illusion he wanted to improve on woeful Cathcart/Troost/Kabasele.

    I don’t believe that we couldn’t have guaranteed Phillips the game time required given how dreadful the current CBs are.

    It will be a glorious day when Pozzo is gone.
     
    a19tgg and Burnsy like this.
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I swear Leventhal said we backed away from a deal for Kolasinac because we wanted to keep the PL/domestic slot open for other opportunities...

    ....thats going well.
     
  32. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    I’m hoping for a sudden Rodon announcement. Hell, even Jones would probably make me happy at this point!
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  33. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Not everybody is on drugs you know! I do get the frustration around defenders because ours are clearly not good enough but equally no point throwing a load of cash at a player who has barely played and may not be any better, as unlikely as that is a I reckon I could perform better most weeks and I'm 49
     
  34. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    There is a chance that Bournemouth have offered a better long term deal than we can. They have an owner with a lot more money than ours although this does feel a bit a bit Derby/Reading kind of situation where as if they don't go up they could be in the brown stuff.
    You're not keen on our owner? I wish you had mentioned it before
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Jones put in a better performance in his one and only game this season, than any of our CB's have to at any point.
     
  36. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    But Bournemouth haven't done that.

    And - you are reading far far too much into the whole 'Phillips hasn't played very many games' line. He has played plenty of games at a higher level than any of our available CB's. Thats just a plain and simple fact. He has played plenty for a Top 4 team in both the Premier League and also the Champions League. Liverpool fans will really rate him. Fair enough if you don't think we should have done the deal - but I think the reasoning you have given so far can be quite easily pulled apart.
     

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