1. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    What a different type of trolling experience we have here. Makes a change from the Troys still got it nonsense
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  2. Pseud's corner is alive and well.
     
  3. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    If that's the case, why do people pay £100 + to see Oasis, but only a tenner to see a good Oasis cover band? The music is the same...

    Anyway, seeing as your music knowledge is so much broader than mine, maybe you can help me out.

    If you can find a piece from outside of the classical sphere that has the emotional depth, the variety of melody, timbre, dynamics and rhythm, the imaginative harmonic structures from beginning to end and such technical mastery of the instruments by the players as in this Sibelius Violin concerto, I'd love to get a heads up. Thanks.

     
  4. Not dissing Sibelius; the Karelia Suite is one of my favourite pieces of music (admittedly I only found it because one of the themes was the music from the ITV's World In Action). However, yes, you can tick all of those boxes (melody, timbre, harmony etc etc) but if you are comparing like for like I would give you Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon album or maybe the Before and After Science album by Brian Eno. Because a mistake I think you make is to compare a concerto with a song; obviously a composer is going to have more opportunity for variations of tempo etc in a 20 or 25 minute piece than the confines of a 3 minute pop song. A better comparison would be to something like Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield or Thick as a Brick by Jethro Tull.

    Your point about mastery of instruments is also misguided. Most orchestral musicians are talented, obviously, but they are also just playing what is on the sheet in front of them, and in that respect are technicians. The soloists I grant you are exceptional, but even they are only giving nuance to the work as written down. In that respect the Jazz greats have the edge for me because they are largely improvising around the written melody. Also, if you want mastery of an instrument, Dave Gilmour or Joe Satriani would more than hold their own, with the additional kudos of writing their parts themselves. There are countless others, often self-taught, with jaw-dropping technical proficiency. Listen to Jaco Pastorius playing bass for Weather Report and tell me he couldn't cut it in an orchestra, playing the notes on the page in front of him. Or try Pete and Bruce Thomas' rhythm section work on Lipstick Vogue by Elvis Costello.

    But put all of those technical arguments aside, the main thing you don't seem to get is the 'heart' rather than the 'head' aspect. The way that (randomly from thousands) Led Zep, BB King, The Clash, The Four Tops, Toots and The Maytals, Sufjan Stevens, Carole King, James Taylor, Little Feat, Metallica, Dr John, The Beatles, Neil Young, trigger something visceral, emotional, that goes way beyond any technical dissection.

    You are indeed limited by your intellectual rigour towards music. That is why you don't get it.
     
  5. PhilippineOrn

    PhilippineOrn First Team

    I hung on your every word till you mentioned The Beatles.
     
  6. There's no such thing as good music and bad music. No music is "better" than any other. Some is more complicated. Some is more popular. What is "best" is down to personal taste. You can't say e.g. Chopin is better than Agadoo or Rumours, it's all just personal taste. The latter 2 are probably more popular.
     
  7. Rubber Soul and Revolver are great albums. :p
     
  8. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    No, I think you definitively can say Chopin is better than Agadoo.
     
    Mollyboo likes this.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    They're headlining PennFest this year. Great little festival just up the road.

    I'm not a massive Manics fan but they always do a good set live
     
  10. Not on a Hen Night.
     
    Keighley likes this.
  11. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Conn Iggulden is from Chorleywood.
     
  12. On what basis is it "better"? It's more complex and you may prefer it but that doesn't make it better. That's subjective.
     
  13. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Blimey, lighten up a bit!

    I agree with your basic point but you’re not helping your argument by choosing something which isn’t even taken seriously by those working within the genre - and, I would guess, not the artists themselves - let alone outside.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  14. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Jazz musicians fly up and down a scale of notes that automatically sound like jazz, it's very easy to do - although I agree there are some sublime musicians that often had a classical training. Classical musicians (the good ones) are quite able to improvise/compose and will routinely display this ability in the cadenza section of a concerto.

    I don't accept that there is any particular intellectual element to classical music, although that is the pigeonhole that many people like to put it into for some reason - it's either boring or it isn't, and the things that make a piece boring are:

    Repetitive drum beat/guitar strum rhythm. Next time you hear a song, actually listen to it. F*** me it gets on your t1ts after a very few seconds.

    Same old chords. There is no excuse for this. A melody can be hamonised in so many different ways, so why opt for the same each and every time?

    Same melody forever. We heard that 4 bars of melody once and we're quite capable of remembering it without the 'musicians' ramming it down our throats for 5 minutes.

    Dynamics - playing at the same volume for the entire song. Christ...

    Just to let you know that I also listen to Alison Krauss and Union Station amongst others and find that they tick all the boxes for good music.

    The more this discussion goes on, the more I realise that the heading 'Music' for this thread is ridiculous. Perhaps 'Pop music' is what the OP actually intended.
     
  15. I heard there was a secret chord
    that David played and it pleased the Lord
    but you don't really care for music do you?
     
  16. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    I wish David had shared the secret with Leonard.
     
  17. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Cohen > Dylan.
     
  18. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    It isn't. Some music is better than others - but if you aren't in a position to appreciate that, it doesn't matter. Lucky, lucky, luckily there is no reason why you still shouldn't thouroughly enjoy your Kylie Minogue.

    Ignorance truly is bliss.
     
  19. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I notice Patti Smith is performing in Manchester in June.

    There used to be so much diversity around that doesn't seem to be there any more.

    To have quite contemperanous albums by Family, Grateful Dead, Steely Dan, Little Feat, Flying Burrito Brothers, Led Zep, Fairport Convention, Genesis, Yes, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Bowie, was a cornucopia, whether you liked them all or not.
     
    Ghost of Barry Endean likes this.
  20. PhilippineOrn

    PhilippineOrn First Team

    There's a lady who's sure
    All that glitters is gold.

    Is Beyonce better than Alicia Keys?
     
  21. It is you who are ignorant. What is bluebeat? Laughable.
     
  22. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Can you give me a Bluebeat track that will in any way enrich my life for having listened to it? I seriously doubt it.

    Ignorance of crap is also bliss - it works both ways.
     
  23. PhilippineOrn

    PhilippineOrn First Team

    Pretentious? Moi?
     
  24. But you, the 'musick lover' don't even know what it is. Ignorance is ignorance, pride in ignorance is the tw@tty mark of the Brexiteer.
     
  25. Doubtless crap to your ears, but better to dance to than 'The Rite of Spring' (see what I did there?

     
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  26. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    No, I'm a lover of good music. That isn't to say I'm not exposed to different styles on a daily basis, it's just that I've never had my interest piqued by that particular genre enough to find out what it is.
     
  27. Loving this
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  28. Also loving this
     
  29. Also loving this
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  30. Also loving this
     
  31. Also loving this
     
  32. How sad to be Mollyboo.
     
  33. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Someone could equally state that they love Bells Whiskey, White Horse Whiskey, Tesco Value Whiskey and GlenDronach 12 year old Whiskey.

    It doesn't mean they are a whiskey lover - on the contrary, it means they have no standards and know f*** all about whiskey. How sad to be them.

    I think it's probably best if I retreat from this thread as my contributions clearly aren't what the OP was really after.
     
  34. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    Yep already going. 10 minutes from home
     
  35. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Why are you already going if it's only 10 minutes from home? You'll be massively early.
     
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