Medical/Fitness Department

I know we have a lot of injuries but that first statement you make is ridiculous.

 

I know it from a totally different era. But the last season I played non league football mid 70's I played over 4300 minutes (48 matches) I missed one match due to a head injury ( 8 stitches and a burst Artery. Missed the Tuesday night game had stitches removed Thursday and played Saturday. In those days no warm up just a few stretches and five minutes before the start. Also only one sub so you played 90 mins, the ball was heavier the pitches were heavier. In fact there was only grass in the corners by January. In all the seasons I played I never pulled a hamstring I also never saw a weight, never mind lift one. If you are playing two matches a week you don't need the gym everyday and hard training you are not going to lose fitness but you need rest. I am sure no one will agree but its just my experience

 

Everyone is different.
What works for one doesn't for another.
Fitness knowledge has improved dramatically just as all sports science has.
Some rely on natural talent and in the past may have done a few jogs around the pitch and a few stretches and off they went. Remember the West Ham players reaction to " that little fat bloke" ? We know him as Puskas!

I don't know of any athlete in any discipline that doesn't go through their own fitness regimes, weights,cardio, pilates, yoga, skipping ( still hard to beat for numerous reasons) running, stretching, whatever shape or form it takes.

Some people are immune to injuries or more likely play through niggles. Experience tells most athletes to understand their bodies and know what needs treatment and what doesn't.

Having spoken to my physio I wonder whether the change of backroom staff means the playing staff have had too many different regimes.

Moreover the modern day Narcissistic desire to appear as if,to use Clive James' immortal phrase about Schwarzenegger " a condom full of walnuts" is not conducive to that of an athlete of any description.

As Mrs Pearman said eons ago " footballers spend far too much time building up their quads to the detriment of their hamstrings".

She was rarely wrong!

 

If as you say Mrs Pearman said " footballers spend far too much time building up their quads to the detriment of their hamstrings". Why haven't these marvelous sports scientists rectified it. It would appear that if it wasn't happening years ago they are doing something wrong now

 

Why is it? Skyla is pretty much parroting what Bilic has said himself, so no idea why it’s ‘ridiculous’ to you?

 

Perhaps because they aren't so marvelous?

Just because we have more awareness doesn't mean everyone uses it.

 

The statement that we don’t do warm ups? Ok, you don’t think it’s ridiculous, but it is

 

That wasn’t the statement Skyla made though was it?

She suggested they don’t get ‘proper’ warm-ups/downs.

I don’t see how that’s ridiculous - because again, our own manager is suggesting that could be true.

 

Our own manager has said it’s not just bad luck and we need to change things, nothing about warm ups or downs. We go through very similar warm ups as every other team
It’s a ridiculous statement

 

I didn't see Bacuna warming up during the first half but his preparation during half time was very half-hearted.

 

Define this statement?

Every team refines a set of drills for their players before and after the game. They aren't all the same. That's just a fact.

And don't go all 'Lowerrous' - you called out Skyla and clearly suggested she had said we don't warm up (or down) at all. That isn't what she said. She suggested we didn't do it properly ...which is a different matter.

The only thing ridiculous here is you trying to get one over Skyla without foundation.

 

They do different drills but fundamentally they are warm ups
I didn’t say she had said that we don’t do warm ups, I said her statement was ridiculous.
Unlike you, I don’t try and get one over on people. I thought it was, and still is a ridiculous statement.
I honestly could not give a sh1t what you think about it.
I find you arguing about a post that had nothing to do with you pretty tiresome but you have form that. If Skyla wants to discuss I’m certain she is more than capable of doing so

 

I'm not arguing. You said something silly and demeaning in its nature. I pointed it out.

And your post #497 literally is you saying that she said we don't do warm-ups! So I have no idea how you can claim you didn't say that! So yes, you were trying to get one over her. You can think it's a ridiculous statement - but she didn't say it and you quite clearly (and repeatedly in your replies) have said she did.

And thanks, I appreciate you pointing out what I have form for! I don't deny it!
Many of us know that you also have form for certain types of behaviour - but as this shows, it seems you aren't aware of it.

 

I am not trying to get one over anybody.
This is the statement I’m calling ridiculous.

I am pretty certain hardly any of our squad get proper warm ups/downs.

If I miss quoted somewhere I apologise but this what I was talking about as you can see from my first reply to Skyla. Of course they do proper warm ups. We’re a professional football club, not the red lion Sunday league football team
If Skyla is offended by anything I’ve said then my apologies to her

 

If I may add my Tupperware to this dialogue?
Every player that steps onto court with me will do a warm up.

I could bore you even more witless than I usually do with my posts about the number and variety of options,in my case with or without a racket,in theirs with or without the ball.

Sports science is a little like the first aid course I attended on Thursday with the tutor who looked and sounded like Hywell Bennett. I've attended approximately fifteen since they were made mandatory and on each occasion there has been a slight change from CPR with or without breaths to 'Dr ABC' to ' Drs ABCD' and so on.

It is the same with warm ups/cool downs and each deliverer will have their own favourites/ styles and if they're like me will have forgotten some and then see someone else demo it and think " oh yes! That's a good one!"
When Hungry Hippos was being discussed it reminded me of 'the Caterpillar ' warm up for example. Haven't used that for over a year.

I would say it is highly unlikely that our warm ups differ hugely to everyone elses. They look generic to me.

It will be more the S and C that will be at the root of this and as my physio said " the churn of staff at your club".

 

Really?

Although the managers and coaches have changed, the medical department staff would have stayed the same. Plus the players are constantly wearing monitoring devices, and seemingly regularly being checked/tested in the gym - so the same medical staff should supposedly be aware of whether they're being pushed too hard by any of the managers and if any of the players have issues with muscle imbalances etc.

 

"Should" . Small word big meaning.

 

But if they're not, when they should, then wouldn't that mean the issue is indeed more with them than with the changing coaches?...

 

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

I will say, again,footballers at this level have almost everything organised for them and ultimately no one else can play for them.
Personal responsibility and intrinsic motivation should be enough but if you're on upwards of 15k per week it is easy to see how it weakens.

CR7 may be ridiculed for taking the money in Saudi Arabia but to a large degree he's earned that by his total professionalism throughout his career. He's rarely been injured it's worth noting.

 

So now you're saying the fault isn't with the changing coaches, or with the medical staff, but with the players not doing enough?!

Which of our players do you think might not have been professional enough with their fitness regime then?! Deeney is no longer at the club.

If we had a properly functioning medical team then they should also be aware of when certain players are lagging.

 

I don't know anything about our medical department, but in this day and age are we really thinking they aren't preparing them properly? Just seems unlikely to me.

For me, our transfer policy is to blame. We collect players, we don't sign them. If there's some bargain to be had around the world, we snap them up without thinking. You really wonder whether there's anything other than a rudimentary medical check done before they sign.

Take Hause for example. Everyone knew he had multiple injury problems, yet we snapped him up with seemingly no interest from other clubs. Villa must have been ******* themselves

 

Hause and Davis are the two examples of fairly injury prone players we signed recently that are currently missing. You can maybe add Kalu to that due to his age. There's an argument though that if the two of them weren't so injury prone they might have been playing more regularly at a bigger club than ours anyway.

But the likes of Choudhury, Sema, Kabasele, JP, Gosling, Louza aren't necessarily injury prone players, or at least weren't when we signed them.

 

No I'm not.

I'm saying as with most problems it has many possibilities, starting at the top with the churn of all manner of people and filtering down to the professionalism of the playing staff.

If it were simple it would have been solved by now.

I know what is required in tennis,I've got a reasonable idea in other sports,as have many on here and beyond and if I don't know I ask someone I believe does.

That's it.

Let's hope Bilic finds the solution if only to end this bickering.

 

To further my above point about if they weren't so injury prone bigger clubs might have swooped - we did only sign Hause on loan, so it's not as if it was a massive risk for us to "snap him up" (agreeing an obligation to buy for Davis if we got promoted was silly though).

 

I’d imagine the obligation pushed to us the head of the queue as his perceived performances for Forest last season would have made him quite the asset for many clubs at this level.

Hause though, I have no doubt it was the complete opposite. Here’s a left footed CB, sign him without even checking the CV.

Both of those expose the panicky aspect of our transfer business, mostly hopeful shots in the dark that have no real method behind them.

 

IIRC Hause had been linked to us in previous windows. We seem to do that quite often - be linked to a player a few times before eventually the stars align and the deal happens.

 

Yeah, we wait for them to develop a chronic injury before we strike.

 

or reach the age of 33

 

Hause had made 17 and 7 starts for Villa in the PL in his previous 2 seasons and had been fairly decent at that level. In the couple of games he managed to play for us before getting injured again he played well and seemed as if he would clearly be our best defender if fit.

Of course it's a big if given his injury history and our medical team, but it seemed a reasonable punt to make given that he'd clearly be a very good player at this level if he had managed to play more games and in theory he should be coming in to his prime as a CB.

It didn't work out, but it's faaaar from the worst decision the club have made in recent seasons.

 

Spot on for me. There are so many things that could be a factor, and simply pointing at the medical staff and saying "yep, there's the problem" is a knee jerk response. It's totally possible they're all very competent but the source of the issues is something else entirely; that's why it is important to determine the root cause before making changes.

The club brought in a highly respected in-demand Spanish specialist a short while back and it seems profoundly unlikely to me that the changes he made are all unfit for purpose. The problem has to be more complex than that.

 

When was this?

Where did you see this?

It might have been posted in here already but I can't recall.

 

About 18 months to 24 months ago.

Posted on here.

Don't remember the specifics and I honestly can't be arsed to track them down, but you'll find it if you dig hard enough.

 

I'm not sure knee-jerks are very sensible considering our injury situation.

 

Wasn't he unwell when he joined the club back in the summer or was that Hause?