Medical/Fitness Department

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by hornetboy1, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Hause comes to mind. They must of known he was generally crocked - when we did see him in that little spell he did look good. He's made the bench a few times and then some games is totally absent from the squad. Do our "scouts" not do any research into a player? Or does it all go through the used car salesman and his little black book? There is no way we will be able to field a consistent starting eleven this season, which is why our results will continue to be poor or half decent at best. A side that has to continually chop and change will never gel, and that is why I feel we are going to be fighting to get into the playoffs. A lot of this comes down to the fact we have no money, we can only get loans which you still have to pay a loan fee for (unless it's a free).
     
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  2. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I noted this on the Hause thread a month ago, actually - we were just cheaply flying by the seat of our pants thinking we could wish away the trends of a lifetime, like with the majority of players we sign:

     
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  3. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Modern day players are soft as ****, and a lot of them simply won't play with any sort of knock. How many times do you hear of players now missing a game because they 'felt something'? Stretch it out, run it off. Nowadays a small knock means a few weeks out and then a well publicised painfully slow reintroduction to training.

    I recall being at the training ground for something a few years ago on a Thursday and John Eustace walked past limping really heavily and clearly in a lot of discomfort. Saturday at 3pm he was leading the team out.

    A lot of modern players are mentally and physically weaker. There are still some who want to play - Cathcart was nowhere near fit for the Luton game but he was "patched up" enough to get him through. The vast majority don't have that mindset.
     
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  4. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    The two members of staff who treated Choudhury on the pitch, then treated him on the side of the pitch, then let him back onto the pitch should be disciplined or let go.

    The two members of staff who treated JP on the pitch, then treated him on the side of the pitch, then let him back onto the pitch should be disciplined or let go.
     
  5. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Not that Gosling is as good as those two, but that was even more egregious. Speaking of which, I wonder if they were the same people that let TDB go back on against Reading...
     
    RS2 likes this.
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The two professional football players who went back on the pitch despite receiving clear signals from their legs to their brains indicating they were injured should be disciplined first.
     
  7. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Two professional players who wanted to help their team and do their job should not be disciplined before medical 'experts' whose job is literally treating and preventing injuries.
     
  8. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Reservist

    Problem is, the priority is to keep the talent on the pitch if at all possible. We can't have it both ways. In this thread we've got some people saying players these days won't play on through the pain barrier like in the good old days, and others saying the players should have the brain cells to effectively substitute themselves.

    The sports medical staff I know wouldn't press an athlete into action if it was clear what the problem was, but in a two-minute check over it's often not possible to diagnose the full extent of an injury so 'carry on for a couple of minutes and see how you are' isn't necessarily negligent or idiotic.
     
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  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    But then the natural conclusion is their job would be safest if they were just so risk averse that every single time a player sat down giving the appearance of being injured they insist they’re subbed?
     
  10. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    I could be wrong but I think ligament injuries are pretty easily assessed no? Choudhury was sent back on with a knee ligament injury and JP with an ankle ligament injury. They aren't the injuries you just strap up and run off, which seems to be the standard treatment from our medical staff.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  11. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Reservist

    I'm not a medical expert but I do know that it's a stretch to say that the extent of a ligament injury can be assessed in a few minutes on the pitch. Knee and ankle pain and swelling can range in severity. Is it not possible that in the absence of a definitive diagnosis there is a hope that a sprain or strain could ease?

    But if you're right then it's simple, eh? Either our medical staff completely ignored serious injuries and said: "Oh get on with it, you're fine." Or they are completely incompetent.

    I suspect the truth is that it's probably a bit more complicated than that. I know of cyclists who have finished stages of the Tour de France without realising they'd broken bones, and without team medical staff being able to confirm in a few minutes by the road side that something was as serious as it turned out to be.
     
  12. hjw

    hjw Reservist

    I don't believe Watford's medical team are professionally incompetent, and to suggest it is disrespectful IMO, but in a way it reflects modern society in the UK when it comes to how we treat medical professionals generally. There are many things to be annoyed about and accusations to be made regarding todays game, but you are aiming your annoyance / frustration in the wrong place if you think the medical staff at the club are to blame
     
    Arakel likes this.
  13. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    The fact that neither Choudhury or Pedro could run with their injuries and had to be replaced within a minute of coming back on suggests that they should not have returned. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that injuries as severe as that are picked up by medical staff working at a Championship level club.
     
  14. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Nobody has blamed today's result on the medical staff as far as I'm aware??
     
  15. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I think this is a crazy red herring of a stretch, to be honest, and those two things are not really associated in any way. Contextually, they're incredibly different, for a start.

    Besides, as RS2 has already said, literally no one is blaming the club's current situation on the medical department. Some are questioning, based on recent events, whether they are performing optimally, or, indeed, at the level required of them, as a natural result of said events.
     
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Except the manager has himself questioned them and the owner has sacked some members of the medical team. Otherwise, sure.
     
  17. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Doesn’t help we don’t have a sub ready to replace them straight away or probably need to work out what to do in terms of tactics.
     
  18. Lubaduck

    Lubaduck Academy Graduate

    I understand why a manager would ask a player to hobble back onto the pitch , limp about a bit , then go down injured again as this will buy some time to decide what changes to make . However if this actually made any injury worse then that would be counter productive for sure
     
  19. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

  20. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I could never agree with this. I was at both games and it was blindingly obvious that neither Choudhury nor Pedro would be able to ‘run off’ their injuries. As everyone knows the thing to do is to get them off as soon as possible so as not to worsen the injury. As for the substitutions, it’s very easy for the injured player to sit down and be treated for as long as it takes for the sub to be ready to come on. The ref will almost always allow this to happen these days and add time on at the end of the half. To be honest, I would put the poor decision making on Bilic as much as on the medical staff.
     
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  21. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    But both players came off relatively quickly and there’s no evidence at all to suggest their injuries were worsened by the actions of the physios, so what’s the fuss?

    Choudhury was as much timing as anything given the coming together was so early in the match. The Hull physios sent their bloke on again for a bit too before both had to be subbed, so it’s not just a Watford medical team competency issue.

    And if we’re absolutely honest Pedro goes down writhing in pain in nearly every game. I’ve no idea how anyone in the crowd can claim to know if he’s actually injured or not. Against Huddersfield last week he spent a couple of minutes curled up prone on the floor receiving treatment then next thing you know he’s up and instigating the move that lead to the corner he athletically leap highest to score immediately afterwards.
     
    lowerrous likes this.
  22. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I presume they also said they would give it a go?

    Try to run it off etc .
     
  23. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Cold sponge and a dose of the magic spray, used to sort most injuries bar broken leg.
     
    Shakespearo likes this.
  24. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Pedro could barely walk off after the first spell of treatment to sit down on the touch line for more. The when he came back on he could put no weight on his injured leg. You didn’t have to have any medical training to see there was no way in the world he could continue.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  25. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett First Team

    You would have thought!
    Although in a county match eons ago a physio on our team told one of the opponents she'd just strained her calf.

    She had ruptured her Achilles tendon,we all heard the gun shot.

    Lots of iffy physios out there. Many good ones but like most professions,a number of charlatans.
     
  26. Shakespearo

    Shakespearo Reservist

    There may well be many, but that’s the only one I know.
     
  27. Leetanner

    Leetanner Academy Graduate

    Many years ago when you could tackle in matches I will always remember two things our coach telling us never go into a tackle half hearted as you will get injured and never go onto the pitch thinking you have won the match ,you have to earn the right to win a game through blood sweat and tears with a little bit of quality thrown in ,i watched sarr on the half way line during second half millwall player Attacking the ball was taking everything sarr looked at him and wet himself and fell in a heap I shook my head with embarrassment our lot are made of glass, you can usually tell who is up for it but unfortunately those lads are injured so all need to start winning there individual battles
     
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  28. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I think you’ll find the ‘magic spray’ might be illegal now….
     
  29. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Another ankle ligament injury, beyond ridiculous now. Must be a fitness issue.
     
    Markoa$ likes this.
  30. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    How do you assess one?
     
  31. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Well I don't know about you but I've sprained ankle ligaments several times and each time the joint was swollen within minutes. It's a bit of a giveaway that something isn't right.
     
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Really not sure that ligament damage can be put down to anything other than pure bad luck.
     
  33. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett First Team

    The trouble with ankles and ligaments is that once you have done it you are very vulnerable to a repeat.

    Especially in a "twisty turny " sport such as football and particularly in a (supposedly) contact one.

    That's why numerous tennis players wear ankle supports, Murray,Berrettini,Halep for example.
     
  34. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I've had many injuries unfortunately including ankle injuries. Sometimes you can twist an ankle that hurts like hell for a few minutes but is then ok. There is no way of knowing if you have done anything to ligaments. Swelling could be a number of things. We can blame medical team for many things but we are at the moment having more than our fair share of mid to long term injuries
     
    Lubaduck likes this.
  35. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Will the last midfielder left please shut the door on the way out!
     

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