A timely reminder that just because our first choice CFs are crap, it doesn't automatically mean that any replacements will be an improvement. And backs up what I've been saying at every opportunity whenever people on here do suggest we chuck in Doumbia (and to a lesser extent Vata) and assume they can't be worse - they are both still raw and need time. eg @PowerJugs
There's only so many times this can be forgiven and carry on as normal. How often did goalkeepers like Chamberlain, Foster and Gomes have to apologise for their performances? Very, very rarely. Yet I can recall this happening quite a few times with Bachmann now. I do think he genuinely cares and is sincere. I can respect him fronting it. That's not the problem nor the what will give a solution though and Cleverley also must take huge blame putting a clearly not fit / focussed goalkeeper out there and wasting the effort our players did put in tonight, particularly the 2nd half. Bachmann must be dropped for Bond for forseeable for both his sake and the team's. Today's loss hangs as much on Cleverley as it does on Bachmann because there was no rational justification to play him after the performance at Luton where he could and should have conceded from yet another dodgy distribution display. What message does it send for a goalkeeper to consistently give away goals in such a manner yet have a competent back up benched who has already show they are up to the task for covering such situations? A fair point. I do stand by the need to give them minutes though to help get them up to speed and if they're introduced in a game where we aren't chasing we may see a better version of them though but we're rarely in a position to have such a luxury when making subs.
Pride restored after a tough weekend when the pitch and ref cost us against lowly Luton. We played so well to just lose our 6th away game in a row. That elusive draw is getting closer! Orns
Just back from that. So frustrating as we gifted the match to an ordinary looking Leeds outfit so early. After the first 7 or so mins as far as the away support was concerned, Tom was joining Bachmann in the dock for stupidly picking our Austrian tonight with things looking bleak. Leeds fans sat back as the massacre was about to unfold. We could have got a mauling feeling sorry for ourselves but once the shock of the opening 10 mins wore off we played our way in. Fortunately a pretty ordinary Leeds team simply expected further easy goals. Yes a few morse scares in the first half mostly when we passed it back to Dan B but we got more than a foothold in the game. The reaction in the second half for about 20 - 25 mins was as good as we could expect. Great goal and a typical byline run from Baah and instinctive finish. Ref and linesman especially first half seemed to be in awe of big time Leeds allowing a couple of fouls on Baah and others and as we replied in kind the whistle went. Linesman on our side first half constantly failed to keep up with play and despite never in a position to make a judgment always missed Leeds offsides. Second half Baah and others were flagged as offside as guesses again. Can linesmen/assistant refs stay the same side for both halfs. Either one or both were inept and biased. I think a big crowd so close to the pitch tends to have an effect that way. Annoying. Cleverley and the team regained the away support with that spirited effort. Stand-outs in my opinion were Sissoko - saw him criticised on this thread earlier but he was disrupting Leeds, intimidating them and his distribution was smart and effective; he really led as captain tonight - Larouci (some brilliant 'steals' of the ball and got forward into dangerous areas with delightful one-twos), Ebosele (pace, power and tackling on show), Pollock won so many balls in the air and refused to be bullied, Sierralta (positionally disciplined and calm) and of course Baah. Let's not accuse him of running on empty after 30 mins he kept things going late into the 2nd half. The amount of effort put in meant that we couldn't really create much after around 75 mins and our resistance petered out sadly. Of course nothing to be gained now by wondering what could have happened with Bond picked in goal. Austria realised what a liability Bachmann was quite a few years ago. 2The best goalkeeper in the Championship2 as TC describes him is nothing of the sort. Hamer rightly took his place for several months last year and Bond must now surely do likewise. It is a decision required now to allow us to be competitive much as the Bayo debate of recent weeks requires a similar resolution. There's a lot to like about many in our squad but Tom needs to prove he's in charge and has the answers to some tough questions. We return once more to Deeney's 'cojones' theorem. Can TC crack that code?
Daniel ****ing Bachmann is such a stupid hill for Our Tom to die on. Him playing Saturday and tonight makes no sense given he’s still not fit and smacks to me of TC looking after a mate or just another Watford manager who has his favourites. I wonder what Jonathan Bond makes of this as well. He’s either going to be fuming with TC or is happy to sit on the bench and doesn’t care about playing. Either outcome isn’t exactly good.
We were expecting a hammering but to lose 2-1 and show some resilience is a plus. Plenty of negatives already mentioned though. One of my biggest annoyances is we had 8 minutes of injury time and not once did we put them under any pressure at all. Constantly making needless fouls or stupid decisions allowing them to slow the game down. That needs to improve. Whenever we are 1 up with a few mins to go, the other team always at least put us under pressure/get the odd corner. Why can't we be smart enough to maintain pressure like them? Oh well. Blackburn at home, it has all the makings of an 1-0 defeat tbh.
If Porteous made two mistakes like that and cost us 2 goals he would be dropped and Bachmann should not be treated any different. We all know its not a one-off and he doesn’t have the nickname ‘Flapmann’ for no reason. His kicking is atrocious and he nearly cost us 2 more goals by wayward passing straight to a Leeds player. TC now needs to not be a hypocrite and be consist with his team selection and management. Bond did nothing wrong to be dropped like he was and can imagine he is pissed off especially after seeing 2 Bachmann **** shows back to back. I fully expect Bayo & Bachmann to start at Blackburn on Saturday and that’s when I’ll be giving it a miss.
I was proud of the team last night , what can anyone do when your GK chucks a couple in after 7 minutes?. But for 25 minutes or so we had Leeds rocking and we have to remember we were away to a title favourite and this all stems from having forwards who can get on the ball and cause problems up top as opposed to the ball just coming back and the defence under constant pressure. Baah was great so were both FBs, Ince has probably played himself into the side and Pollock looks like a leader .
Horrible start, better after that and showed plenty of character but without really putting much pressure on their goal. Just as at the Etihad one of those “it could have been worse” nights, but ultimately it’s yet another defeat on the road. As and when our home form starts to wobble, there won’t be a lot to cheer us through the dark winter months. I like a lot of what Tom does and what he brings to the table but I find it worrying that as a footballing man, he thought Jebbison was the obvious answer to our number 9 position, and that this past week he’s thought Bachmann deserves a pick ahead of Bond, who like Hamer last season seemed to be finding his feet after a little run in the side. This week I watched a good interview with Sir Alex, and he was asked for the best advice he received when he started managing. His answer was simple….buy players who play. Obvious but true. Look back at our window this past summer and our line-up last night, and think about that!
What is blindingly obvious after yesterday and something most people have been banging on about is our options up top are lousy. Baah was great but run out of steam but we had another striker on the bench but TC threw Pollock up top to try and win something rather than sub on the striker . Which says everything most of us have been saying so back up for Baah is imperative in the transfer window . Bayo\Jebbo sack em off .
Problem is Cleverley has made another error in the media by saying “if he’s fit, he plays”. He’ll look pretty daft dropping him the game after saying that and I really don’t think he will unless they fabricate a new injury to save face.
All we asked for after Saturday was a bit of passion, to score a goal, an improvement in performance and still being in the game to the end. We got all of that. Job done.
And actually said time he was fit - the errors were just “freaks “. Maybe more concerning also said they know Bachmann was injured after 10 minutes but kept him on the other day !
And there are positives to take from the game whereas there was nothing after losing to a bottom 8 team on Saturday.
TC is a rookie coach still learning his craft and he loves the club. Early signs are good for him to have a solid career in management considering the squad he has to work with. I cant take anyone seriously that is asking for his head already.
You're probably correct but I wouldn't pick him because of his mental state not just his physical problems. It's all very well trusting him and hoping playing him plays him back into form but his confidence is zero. He needs time out to work on his game and take stock,get fully fit. I'm not sure he's obviously better than Bond. I wasn't sure he was better than Hamer,but I'll defer to goalkeepers on that one. A half fit, mentally wounded player is certainly not better than one who hadn't really made an obvious error when he stood in. Just bad management. Any teacher knows you can't have favourites.
Jan Pelters, the Dutch goalkeeper? Are we signing him in January? After the self-flagellation while sniffing an onion, to the background of sad violin music, I assume Gino allows the media team access to one, this must mean that Botchmann will be the first name on the team sheet for Saturday.
Yeah there was one incident in the second half when Baah bent his run and received the ball from a pass in behind and was through on goal, only for the linesman to put his flag up. The replay showed he'd actually timed his run perfectly and was being played on by the CB at the far side. Though that didn't stop the bumbling Derek Payne on comms from chiding Baah about how he still has a lot to learn and needs to time his runs better...
Given where we are in the table, he's performed above expectations overall. He's shown some ability to learn and adapt and shown some traits most managers have (favourites, preferred shape) but does seem to have the respect of the squad. The challenge for him next is to drop underperforming favourites as they are players he'll naturally trust more. He needs to see the message that sends to the team and the fans. Rotating the squad and seeing a much better performance should be a sign he needs to keep more of the rotated squad.
Weird game. After ten minutes I was expecting a cricket score but Leeds took their foot off the gas. I was in with the Leeds fans last night and they felt we had a lot of strength but no guile so when we won the ball we looked a bit lost. Bachmann had a stinker and is out of form. Baah isn't a striker. If we had a capable striker we would have got a point. Pollock laid into a few players after the bad start for not committing to tackles. Future skipper, no doubt.
How are those the two only outcomes? Bond was always brought in to be back-up goalkeeper, so no reason why he should be fuming to be returned to his role as backup goalkeeper. Maybe he wouldn't be happy about it either but it would have been clear to him when joining that it was his role.
Even he's not that much of a maniac. Some on here seem to be even more maniacal about TC's prospects though.
Given Bachmann has been pretty much operating on one leg for the last two games, making two huge errors yesterday, they seem to be the only two sensible outcomes in my mind. Each to their own though.
I'm not buying that TC has his favourites, every manager will have a way they want to play and prefer players at their disposal to suit that system. Realistically we didn't sign anything other than squad players in the summer so he has very little to choose from.
I want to know what was said at half time? A pathetic first half we again had no real energy, and then came out second half and battered them for 15 minutes. It was like they'd been told to sit back and keep it tight for the first half and then told to get back out second half and just have a go... A worrying lack of Cojones lately
I see Dwomoh was on the bench last night, and when he came on a few weeks back for his 10/15 min cameo I thought he looked pretty good. Does anyone else agree with me, and do you think he should be given another shot in the team? I do!!!
The point being made wasn't that we are able to be more physical with the better footballing teams in the division, it's that we can't stand up when other teams put it on us. We were more physical than Leeds, certainly in the second half but they've still come away with three points and created far more chances than us. We got bullied by Luton and came away with no points. We (at some points) bullied Leeds but were still second best by some distance and came away with no points. The teams that do well in this division can stand up to the more physical approach when it's put on them by other teams - if anything last night makes the exact opposite of the one you think you're making (in customary patronising style).
Disappointing to lose any game but at least the reaction after Saturday was there. Doesn't help when your keeper throws two in within the first few mins. What I will say about Bachmann though is that it is TC's choice to play him. Clear on Saturday he wasn't fit so how on earth he was selected tonight is astonishing. He isn't great but he is more than capable at this level. If you watch Championship games there are very few very good keepers. The Leeds keeper himself made an almighty gaff a couple of weeks ago and I've seen plenty of keeper errors this season from other sides. At least he came out and took responsibility after the game, more than anybody did after the Luton disaster Before the last couple of games he's had a pretty good season I thought we played well in patches despite the horrific start, the two wing backs and Baah were excellent as was Ince who I do think should play a bit more especially as his set pieces are better than most. Leeds still had chances but you expect that when you play the promotion favourites away from home but it was good to see us not collapse after that initial 7 mins I saw somebody post that Sema has been awful this year. He was rubbish Saturday but so was everybody but actually I don't think he lets us down when he plays. It's very likely to be his last season but I think he has a role to play this year Not sure where Jebbison was but was happy to see Doumbia and Vata come on instead of Bayo. Doumbia may not be quite ready yet but we know what Bayo gives us and to persevere with him seems a waste of time. I hope we stick with a similar team on Saturday, maybe a 4-3-3 with Chak, Vata and Baah the front 3.
