La Liga

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by wfc4ever, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Well we are in good company giving away 8 goals in a game now !

    Bayern so lethal and impressive.

    Barca woeful in defence though.
     
  2. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    I'm delighted.

    Barcelona, along with Real Madrid, are my 2 most hated clubs on the continent. From living in Spain for 2 years, I can tell you that I became absolutely sick of those 2 clubs and their fanboy culture. Hopefully Spanish kids all over the country with no connection to those cities whatsoever will be crying into their churros tomorrow morning.

    I'm sure German football fans were hoping that Bayern would lose tonight, but as I say, with Ngakia signing this eve and Barcelona humiliated, I'm happy :)
     
  3. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I'd imagine he's listing all he refereeing errors and missed VAR decisions on fcbforums.com at the moment and responses will be delayed.
     
    Diamond and a19tgg like this.
  4. reids

    reids First Team

    Barcelona's reluctance to deviate from their play-style combined with repeated awful buys over a sustained period like the last few years was always going to be a recipe for disaster. It's never a good sign when you have spent €300m on 3 players who are sitting on the bench in a tie like this. It's even worse when one of those players comes off the bench for the other team and bags a brace.
     
    The undeniable truth and a19tgg like this.
  5. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Lionel Messi is overrated (brilliant, but absolutely not the "GOAT"). Change my mind.
     
  6. reids

    reids First Team

    He's managed to score 25 goals and grab 21 assists in the league while playing with a load of ***** around him. Watford managed 36 goals between our whole squad. To put up the numbers he does every single season is just incredible
     
    folkestone orn and Smudger like this.
  7. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

  8. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Is this another wind up effort ? Very poor. To back up reids his second best season in La Liga playing in a side without pattern or purpose.

    [​IMG]
    It is amazing how many people who by doing so show they nothing about football have come out criticizing Messi on the basis of one game. The same old arguments that have been continually disproved over and over again being trotted out. Maradona when he won the World Cup did not as the myth that has grown up now been surrounded by donkeys. That team had several extremely fine players and their club sides had beaten the best in Europe at the time like Cesspool and Franco Madrid. Bilardo created an effective pragmatic system that allowed Maradona to thrive and provide the special ingredient for success.

    For any player to succeed you still need a functioning team and one that can defend. Messi on the international stage had his best chance probably in 2006 when Pekerman failed to use him and dragged off Riquelme in a match they were dominating and had a fine balanced side. 2010 any side coached by Maradona is bound to struggle. 2014 and onwards he has been plagued by having a striker in Higuain who is instinctive and when asked to think fluffs his lines. Swap him for Batistuta and Argentina are sitting on three international titles in successive years.

    He is and will remain one of the greatest players ever. As for Argentina he has some fairly stiff competition aside from Maradona in players like Moreno, Pedernera, di Stefano and in his position the Argentine Garrincha Oreste Omar Corbatta.
     
  9. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes maybe, but he's no Andre Gray.
     
  10. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    For a neutral it was one of the most entertaining games I've ever seen. Bayern just went right for their throats and it paid off handsomely. The ball over the top would of caught them out over and over but Bayern just pressed and worked harder all over the pitch.
     
  11. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    A poor mans Andre Gray you mean , surely ?.
     
  12. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    On a serious note given that Messi is given little or no defensive responsibility
    I cannot see how he was expected to bail out a defence that has conceded 8.

    Spuds and Chelsea fans probably slept a little easier last night ....
     
  13. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Riquelme was a fantastic player. Really underrated.
     
    Markoa$ likes this.
  14. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Look at his record. If that doesn’t change your mind then nothing will
     
  15. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    What about what I said would be a "wind up"? If I don't think Messi is the single greatest player of all time I must be "on a wind up"?

    As I said, brilliant player and achievements are undeniable, but not the GOAT for me.
     
  16. lendal

    lendal Reservist

    Who is then?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  17. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    If we are talking about achievement in the game then I'd have Cristiano Ronaldo above him, who has done it in the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and on the international stage. If we are talking about pure footballing talent then I'd place Ronaldo Nazario above him, too.

    People will always argue it but for me, no matter how anyone tries to spin it, the fact he has only ever played for Barcelona - a club that has literally been designed around him and getting the most out of him for more than the past decade - stops him from being the absolute best. He's never left his comfort zone or showed the desire to go and do it elsewhere. People will call it loyalty, I call it not wanting to take the risk. It makes it even worse when he seems to p*ss and moan about the club and the country every season now but still won't take on a new challenge.

    Nights like last night are obviously few and far between comparative to his brilliant performances, I'm well aware of that, but he completely and utterly phoned it in. For the supposed GOAT his performances was borderline unprofessional. Waltzed around like he was above it all, like it was everyone's fault but his, whilst he put in zero effort, gave the ball away constantly and looked up there with the worst on the pitch. Barca as a team were obviously completely outclassed, but as soon as the chips were down he showed zero desire to take the game by the scruff of the neck, and not for the first time.

    I'm not denying he's one of the best ever, but I personally disagree that he is the best.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
    Jumbolina, Timbers and Davy Crockett like this.
  18. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Fair points and if someone thinks that Pele, Cruyff, Best , Maradona, CR7 , whoever is the best then
    it is hard to argue against as it is someones opinion.
     
  19. lendal

    lendal Reservist

    It’s all about eras...CR7 now, Cruyff & Maradonna in theirs, Matthews in his...
     
  20. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    ....but where are the current 25-30 age group who should be retiring off CR7 and Messi ?

    The current 18-25 age group will produce a glut of top class grade a talent IMO.
     
  21. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Maxwell Cornet, who I believe we were linked with last summer, just scored a brilliant finish for Lyon.
     
    El distraído likes this.
  22. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    HAAAAA, get ****ed City! Some of it definitely is because of the constant batterings, but I think I genuinely hate City more than L*ton, at least the scum aren't a front for a murderous regime (though I might decide I'm chatting **** when the first derby day in 15 years comes around!)
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  23. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Which, if any, do you think will hit the heights of Messi and Ronaldo?

    There are 3 players in that age group who stand out to me as incredible talents, but I'm not sure I can see any of them becoming GOAT contenders in the way that Messi and CR7 are.
     
    Davy Crockett likes this.
  24. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    3 off the top of my head and oddly enough all currently play in Germany
    Sancho, Haaland and Davies. There are others Torres?, and Madrid and Barcelona
    have a couple of prodigies.
    However they still have to develop into the complete player.
    Do you remember when Ronaldo first burst onto the scene and was a bag of tricks?
    Then he worked on his "end product" and this is what separates the great from
    the good . Can you score ? Can you create ?
     
  25. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Going off topic for a moment : if you had an average footballer who could score
    or an extremely talented footballer who struggled to score , if they were 18 y.o.
    and you had to choose one which one would you choose ?.
     
  26. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The 3 I reckon have the highest ceilings are Mbappe, Haaland and Greenwood.

    I agree that Davies could turn out to be the best full-back of his era, but full-backs are almost never in the running for Ballon D'Ors etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    Davy Crockett likes this.
  27. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    I forgot about Mbappe ! Dunces hat on .

    Today's full back is the new box to box midfielder or attacking width.
    I can see a day when a full back , if they can score or create enough goals,
    is mentioned in the same breath as those who play in "sexier" positions.
     
  28. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    That depends on their all-round ability, what level they're scoring at, their favoured position etc.. Different players also develop at different rates.

    It's worth considering that most prolific forwards don't really tend to get going until their early 20s. You give the example of CR7, he didn't score more than 10 goals in 1 season for the first time until he was 21. Harry Kane the same. Aubameyang not until 22. Henry 22. Van Persie 23. etc.

    Forwards like Rooney or Owen are less common.
     
  29. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    "If"; their numbers are definitely going up, but it's unlikely any will ever rack up as many goals as forwards.
     
  30. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Ronaldo better than Messi. Laughable. The fact that nearly all managers and most players place Messi ahead of him says all you need to know. As Cruyff himself said there is a huge difference between a great player and a great goal scorer (as all the three players listed above are). The only thing being that Messi is also a great goal scorer.

    He is a superior player in every aspect of the game. Dribbling, passing, vision, scoring harder chances and free kick taking. Ronaldo playing in different leagues makes him better ? Messi has shown time and time again that he scores against all the top teams in Europe from all the top leagues. Can you imagine him against us or Norwich ? I have never seen the things he does be done by Ronaldo. If there is a great Ronaldo then its Ronaldo de Lima whose career was cut short by injuries.

    A moaner ? Messi remains pretty quiet as a person. There are stories just that which claim he manipulates selection choices. None of his Argentine coaches have ever said this. He has remained steadfast under enormous pressure throughout his career maintaining incredible standards year in and year out.

    A system built around him ? Which idiot would not build a footballing system to maximize the best out of their best player. No one. Let's play him in deep midfield instead as a youngster for instance. The problem for him is that with Argentina barring Sabella the systems and players employed were not the best. Scaloni has realized with his increasing age that he needs to play closer to the final third instead of continually dropping deep. Barcelona have not. He is having to do the job of the midfield and strikers by himself.

    Without Xavi & Iniesta and a Busquets past his prime the midfield is weak and old. Losing the midfield means losing matches more often than not. It means he has a deeper starting position which with his age his initial acceleration to get away and beat two or three players is gone making it harder for him to be in the danger zone. That said those idiots who think it was Xavi and Iniesta who made him a great player his performance since they departed has been phenomenal.

    [​IMG]
    Those two themselves have stated numerous times that he is a better passer and dribbler than they were. Opinions are opinions. But some are complete rubbish and misinformed and others have a legitimacy.
     
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  31. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I don’t really have an opinion either way, but I must say it’s very strange how angry you get when someone dares to suggest Ronaldo is greater than Messi. It’s like you take it as a personal insult!
     
  32. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Hallo Jumbo. Not that way. It is just that when people state silly things without evidence to back it up like those who support a flat earth, anti vaxxers, climate change deniers and so on and so forth I find it irritating. I have watched football for thirty years or more and in that time you do not need coaching qualifications to see what makes players stand out. Their technical skills, vision, ability to read a game, to pull off the extraordinary. Messi is sublime like Federer at tennis.Head and shoulders above his fellows. As Cruyff said there is a big difference between a great goal scorer and a great player. Ronaldo is a great goal scorer but not a great player in terms of what he does is pretty limited. Messi has outperformed him in all the metrics if we are to take a more fact based approach.

    But in all team sports even exceptional players cannot succeed unless the right framework is in place. Be it Michael Jordan at the Bulls and then Pippen and others arrived. Or Alexander Ovechkin at the Washington Capitals in ice hockey where they needed to make some adjustments to the team to stiffen it up defensively on the forecheck and backcheck and build deeper lines.
     
  33. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    Has anyone noticed the remarkable resemblance between Henrik Larsson and Woody Allen?
    I wonder if by any chance they maybe related?
     
  34. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    The Bayern Munich squad at training today!

    EfzHQy0XgAAiStW.jpeg
     
  35. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

Share This Page