But then were/are chabs and Hughes miles above Doucoure and Capoue? Which was the point I was trying to make earlier in that we got relegated with Doucoure and Capoue, so would simply retaining chabs and Hughes elevate our midfield above the one that was previously relegated? Surely it’s an argument that cuts both ways?
I take your point but for me Doucs and Capoue were a upper mid table premier partnership. That team was not relegated because of its midfield . Chabs and Hughes - meh. Relegation midfield I guess. But miles better than Kucka, Tufan and Louza. I’d rather have Sissoko over Chabs/Hughes but I think that pair plus Sissoko would have been decent.
Seems a bit of revisionism on Chalobah maybe because of the short run of form he had and the promotion celebrations. He's a bang average Championship midfielder and a crock. Would rather have Kucka/Louza.
Louza, maybe (it's still early days!) but Kucka? Bearing in mind historically Chalobah's problem has been availability, but Kucka is absolutely no better in that regard as he can't play anything more than a cameo effectively
Louza I can just about understand. But Kucka? What has he shown that is any better at all? And from my side of things at least, it’s not revisionism on Chalobah. I have always said I thought he was better than people credited him for and more important than Hughes last season.
Agreed, Chalobah was always overrated when he returned, in no small part due to his stellar first spell with us where it was hard to believe he was only 17. He really looked destined for the top but he did nothing notable in his career before the serious injury. A lot of people point to how well he started the season under Silva but the body of evidence amounted to about three games.
Yep. It's marginal with Kucka and even though he's going through a poor run of form, at least he's been available pretty much every week, doesn't bottle challenges, and doesn't stop running (until his legs go after 65 mins...). Fair enough, agree to disagree. Personally think Chalobah isn't capable of the type of performance Kucka showed against Villa and an out of form Chalobah is slightly worse than the out of form Kucka we're seeing. Also believe Chalobah was crap for the majority of a season at a lower level we dominated at, aside from a short run of form towards the end of the season. Agree, think a mix of attitude, injuries and poor decision making (multiple Chelsea loans) have lead to his career not reaching the heights it should have. Shame as that 3 game period under Silva alongside Doucoure looked very encouraging.
You’re right on Chalobah, but Kucka has been dreadful, and I think he will struggle in the championship next year. Painfully slow, lacks stamina and ineffective. Louza isn’t trusted by any of our managers and when he does play gets hooked at half time despite costing the Earth. Right now Chalobah would offer more than both despite him being upper championship standard.
Think Kucka has been a mixed bag but very poor lately, and think there's a decent chance his legs may fall off before the end of the season. Agree to disagree on Chalobah offering more, he's barely made an impact in a very decent Fulham side, just don't think he's up to it anymore
I don’t disagree strongly enough to disagree to be honest. My main beef was not keeping Hughes. I can’t believe after the cup final we decided to extend Cathcart rather than getting Hughes on an improved contract. If that had been done all of the summer nonsense went away. And even then we clearly spent a significant amount bringing in Kucka, Louza and Tufan and I’d take Hughes over all three combined.
I think Kiko has been getting some unfair stick, for me he's one of the more likeable players in our squad, and I certainly don't see him as being here solely for the money, even if he's probably getting more money here than he would at a Segunda Division team or even a La Liga one - he was happy to drop down a division outside his native Spain, and commit to getting the team back up (unlike turncoats like Doucoure, Capoue and Dawson) and is clearly happy here and content to settle in England with his family. Looking at his career in Spain, it follows a strikingly similar trajectory to his one at Watford - two promotions to La Liga, one relegation from it, a midtable finish in the top flight and cup final in the same season. This suggests he's far from uncompetitive at the top level, but going by previous incidents that illustrate his emotional fragility he doesn't have the mental strength to be consistent. It doesn't help though, bearing that in mind, that he's often suffered from being in an unsettled team low in confidence and/or commitment under managers who didn't appear to know what they were doing a lot of the time or understand him from a psychological perspective, plus one that has been hit hard twice by the ongoing pandemic - he's a confidence player and not one that copes well with adversity. I think people should try to have a bit more empathy rather than be abusive. It's no coincidence that he was at his most consistent at the top level under Silva (who played him a number of times as a wing back, his best position) and Gracia before the relegation season.
It's genuinely hilarious to see there's still people defending this woeful little shirker. Pathetically weak, bottles everything, literally quits and subs himself over and over again when the chips are down, is part of one of the worst defensive units relative to the level that many of us will have ever seen, has been crap at this level previously as well, and yet you still have weirdos saying "I don't mind him actually" because he gets forward well when we play the likes of Norwich. Further confirmation of how insane our fan base is.
Something being an opinion doesn't automatically mean it's not completely stupid and/or ridiculous. Femenia's glaring deficiencies, complete lack of any balls whatsoever and pathetic performances at this level are there and clear as day for everyone to see and have been for a long time. I could say it's my personal opinion that I quite like Troost and think he's been alright this season actually. The fact that it's my opinion wouldn't stop me from being a completely deluded idiot who is plainly and simply wrong. Much the same for the nut jobs who still want to defend a proven, spineless, shirking wet wipe like Femenia.
But I think most people agree Femenia has his glaring deficiencies. He can be out-fought too easily, and can have lapses with his defensive positioning. But I think most people can also appreciate he has qualities that can be important to the side, and I think that's proven by the fact he's been preferred to Ngakia (a decent RB) by 3 separate Head Coaches. And much like the rest of the defence and squad he's had several crap games, but I'd say he's been the best of a bad bunch and still put in some impressive performances, most notably the MOTM display against United, when he (strangely) played on after he took a knock. I don't think it makes anyone a 'nut job' to assess his positives and negatives objectively, without resorting to personal attacks.
He regularly subs himself but isn’t injured, do you genuinely see that as a likeable trait? Plus I don’t see him being willing to drop down a division as necessarily a good thing, were Doucoure and Capoue really turncoats? Or do they just have ambition and don’t want to waste their career playing in a substandard league when they don’t have to. For me Kiko happily dropping down a league is just reflective of his general attitude, and not in the saintly way you see it.
Kiko is flaky, but at least has some ability and therefore has proven to be somewhat useful at times this season, I don't know who else he'd start for in the Prem, but he's not the biggest problem with the defence
LOL, I suspect nobody, but I don't know or care enough about whatever ****y RBs/RWBs Norwich/Burnley/Newcastle have lol
Or maybe they are more positive and appreciate that he hasn’t been as bad as you make out. I’m not saying he’s the answer long term but we’re at his level. If we want to progress then upgrades are needed but his position is one I’m far less concerned about. He is far from woeful
Does the fact he subs himself off after less than 45 minutes not concern you in the slightest? Genuinely, what use is a player who is first choice who can’t last 90 minutes?
TBF that might have been a one off or maybe he wasn’t really fit in the first place ? I do sense he is prone to injuries though and seems to suffer a lot .
Does this happen every week? Maybe there is an underlying muscle issue as he is covered in those strips. I admit it’s not great when that happens but he is still far from being a person to despise as somebody put it or a horrific player.
He's played 90 minutes in 7 of the 11 games he's started this season. Played more than 70 minutes in 34 of his 36 starts in a long Championship season. Played 90 mins in 20 of 26 starts in 2019/20. Played 90 mins in 19 out of 22 starts in 2018/19. This feels like the start of another forum myth... I think there's definitely been a few occasions where he's taken himself off because he hasn't felt right. Whether that's a mental thing or a genuine injury only he knows for sure. Or maybe he's the type to make himself available for selection even when not 100%? He did miss the birth of his child to play away at Nottingham Forest on a cold December night...
I do agree that the fact he went down a league and got his head down speaks well for his professionalism and character. I do think he's not at premier league standard and I think he shirks away when the going gets tough. I think he's the least of the defensive issues.
Stating a player subs himself without injury is defamatory. Defamation likely to adversely affect the career is not even relieved by the defence of personal opinion. All of our players are flawed but the disregard of their qualities and resorting to defamation to justify a personal dislike says more about the accuser than the accused.
I don't blame Kiko, but we're in the business of staying in the best league in the world, and If he's not mentally up to the challenge then why the fark are we paying him £30k+ a week? It amazes me really we seem to always sign such weak minded players to play in the toughest positions on the pitch. This current crop of defenders (Sierralta aside) are a bunch of 50/50 bottlers.
Crikey, I best get my Solictor on the phone. While we’re at it we best shut the forum down as well, there won’t be much point to it by the time we strip out all the personal opinion.
Does the same apply to Hughes, Sarr and João Pedro? Reflective of a poor, unambitious attitude? The easy choice for Femenia would have been request a transfer and secure a cushy move to a mid table La Liga club back in his homeland.
Was Valencia's interest in him genuine? If it were, and they could afford him, I bet you he'd have gone there in a flash to be nearer his family and of course an old boss he got on well with. Hughes had just had surgery (but I think was still linked with some moves away), Sarr we were asking for £40m for (he probably would have gone in a flash were it not for the pandemic), and JP had barely played and hadn't shown anything to suggest he'd be a success in a major European league. In hindsight, it was a terrible time to go down, but a good time to bounce back up
If any of the players listed, Kiko included, had refused to play like Suarez and Doucoure, I'd be very surprised if a move hadn't materialised by January at the latest. I'll always be grateful for the players who stayed and got us back up, because we'd likely be pretty ****ed if we'd stayed down.
