Javi Gracia - The One That Got Away

I don’t remember. Not sure what you’re talking about ? Posted on wrong thread ?

 

Until that sentence I thought you two were talking about the last four games of 2018/19, where aside from a spell against Wolves, we were mostly not OK - but yeah, the Brighton game was pretty shambolic (especially second half) but we were slowly improving before Javi got the boot and controlled the first half at Newcastle before fear of dropping points crept in. I don’t think we would have done any better points-wise against Arsenal and City, but we surely would have made better use of the home games we had under QSF, and likely would have done better than zero points at Wolves and Southampton and at home to Chelsea.

 

I think TBF it’s a close call between him, Aidy and Joka. Of course GT was still at the helm but his form was poor this century aside from a purple patch at the start of 2000/01.

Our best manager this century was potentially one of Rodgers, Dyche or Silva (our form under him during the first third of 2017/18 where we had at least our joint best start to a top flight season is being much replicated at Fulham) but for various reasons they didn’t stay around long enough to really prove themselves.

 

There are numerous reasons for our collapse, some factual, others speculative.

I think Deeney’s sending off against Arsenal was the biggest - after a Deulofeu double at an atrocious Huddersfield side we only scored 3 more goals and looked toothless and lacking in leadership in attack, as epitomised against Southampton, easily our most winnable game post-Wolves after Huddersfield. Then there were the two Foster howlers against Arsenal and Wolves, the early Cathcart error vs Southampton and Javi’s strange decision to take off Hughes for Kabasele in the Wolves game when we had a spell on top. (You can probably add Holebas’s sending off against West Ham to the list, but by then we only had a top 10 finish to play for, and perhaps it’s fair to say in this case that the players’ minds were on the final.)

You can blame tiredness but the fact is it was in our hands and the players and to a lesser extent Javi did shoot themselves in the feet for whatever reason. Even a draw in the crucial Wolves game would’ve got us European football if Wolves’ results had stayed the same and we got 4 points in the last two games (a draw at Chelsea and a win against West Ham, not totally beyond us). Individual and tactical mistakes to me were sadly much more our downfall than fatigue, but it wasn’t enough to justify Gracia eventually getting the sack.

 

Our only coach to ever win a major honour


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There were a fair few people who never warmed to Gracia and wanted him out even before the ill-fated start of the season that eventually got him sacked. If memory serves I think most thought it was a good decision to cut him loose at the time; interesting that he is now viewed in a much more positive light.

I'm of the opinion that he was our second best boss after GT, given what he achieved while he was here. Yeah, we got tonked by Man City, but they're cheating gits so sod 'em.

 

I think we're just so conditioned to the manager getting the can after a short run of bad results now, it's easy for us as Watford fans to have knee-jerk reactions

 

People have short memories.

He was a gurning simpleton, propped up by the best player to have ever played for our great club.

Nothing more, nothing less. His failure with Leeds will be a joy to watch.

 

I think your memory is fading. Steve Kabba didn’t play under Gracia.

 

How do you think that 2012/13 season would have gone with Dyche in charge? His style of management and football, with 15 young imports, most of which didn't speak English?

Dyche is by far the better manager, but Zola was the perfect fit for the situation.

 

The remark was at least partially tongue in cheek.

That said, as you say, Dyche didn't turn out too bad, did he?

 

No, as mentioned, he's a much better manager. Just wrong place, wrong time.

I don't think I'd swap that Zola season for anything, mind. Arguably the most 'fun' season this century, despite the miserable finale.

 

The reality is nobody in possession of their marbles sacks a manager off the back of four games in isolation. So I think the frustration for many was that Gino must’ve had his doubts about Javi stretching back to the previous season, so it was just a case of, if he had those doubts and was willing to sack him after just four games, why didn’t he do it at the end of the previous season, instead of giving him a four year deal and waste the whole summer chasing a £32m player he didn’t even want?

I think most people would’ve just rather it was done sooner, rather than it being done at all.

 

There's an argument to say that we weren't ready for the Prem in 2013, but it's still sad that team couldn't quite get over the line

 

The bonuses for that season weren’t due until the following season - the players didn’t know over that summer that the club would play silly b*gets over the payments.

So whilst it’s a noble thought, it sadly is more a case of many players just downing tools as they thought they’d ‘made it’ the previous season and owed nothing more to the club.

 

As I understand it, the players knew over the summer who was and who wasn't eligible for the bonuses – which was the crux of the original dispute. Happy to be corrected if that's not the case.

 

Rodgers was here six months, if that and the football under Dyche was absolutely dreadful. I was pleased he left. Neither are close to manager of the century, potentially or otherwise. Silva before Everton came knocking I understand. Gracia was the one for me. To sack a guy, 4 games in to a season after one of our most successful years in our entire history was just wrong and sadly it was the start of the slide

 

Yes, brilliant football but the Leeds final day, and CP PO final defeat, were 2 of the most painful defeats of the last 40 years.

 

The Sheff Wed title bottling is up there, for me. Made the post match celebrations feel a little forced.

 

Yes maybe close, but at least we knew we wwre going up. The relegation defeat at home to Leicester in GT's return season was a bad day too.

 

Strange way of spelling Nordin Wooter

 

Indeed. Everyone knows it’s spelt Nathan Ellington.

 

Not least because 2 Leicester fans who were getting escorted out of the ground offered out the entire lower rous stand we didn't do a single thing about it.

 

https://learning.coachesvoice.com/cv/javi-gracia-watford/

 

Please don't get people going about the cup final again - I've just got out of therapy

 

I'm over it that this point. The trauma got replaced by Luton 3 - Watford 0

 

I'm still receiving mine.
For '84...

 

I think most of us would prefer to win a cup final and have a trophy in our pretty empty cabinet !!!!!!!!!??????????