Ivic Out

Jury is out on Ivic, it is still early days, but I think he's genuinely trying to instill a winning mentality.

It's still that spineless, apathetic, tools down, bottle job factor that infects our squad and seems to have no cure that renders any manager's job with us impossible.

 

Ivic claims he is utilising his non-preferred formation.

His justification for the dreadful 352 is that he doesn’t trust the personnel in the left back position.

I understand this mindset against teams which offer substantial threat. I would accept using it when defending a lead late in the game.

But when you’re going up against teams with next to no threat, have one clogger forward and we have three players marking him and contributing nothing to our attacking play, you know something is wrong.

When you stick with the formation for almost 90 minutes when you’re 1-0 down, you’re dealing with someone who isn’t using common sense.

Yes, Gino and friends are to blame for our lack of quality CFs.

But a manager with any nous would try to overcome this deficiency but moving more players into an attacking position. Ivic at the moment is bringing on more attacking personnel, but not moving them into the positions they need to be in to threaten the opposition.

And that’s definitely not good enough.

 

Exactly. In the Premier League the equation for a club of our size is that we have to field the most competent XI in the most pragmatic formation every week. In the Championship, particularly with the squad we have and the parachute payments stuffing the coffers, we can realistically afford to field me at left back in the coach’s preferred formation against 10-12 opponents and should still have a fair chance of winning.

 

How about if Ivic sets us up to ATTACK so we have a chance to SCORE SOME GOALS?

 

More worried about what the opposition will do to us than what we do to them if we went with an attacking lineup. Playing Man City or Liverpool you could understand it, but Barnsley?

 

Earlier in the season it seemed like Ivic was getting the team to play like more than the sum of its parts (in the league at least). That seems to have completely changed now that our supposed better players are available. Playing only 2 attacking players against two of the poorest teams in the league is genuinely inexcusable. I hope he gets given time. I really want us to move away from the hiring / firing approach that I think has really hurt us over the last 18 months. But I also really hope Ivic changes some pretty obvious and fundamental things pretty quickly.

 

Would be ridiculous to get rid of him now.

 

He has three things in his favour.

- He’s trying to bed in players who are higher quality but not match sharp.

- We’re not used to playing against cloggers who put 11 players between the ball and their own goal.

- We don’t have a striker.

If he just changed the structure when we went behind and it clearly wasn’t working, we’d be far more positive about him. He’s currently being far too stubborn/ rigid and he’s therefore being his own worst enemy.

 

Have been a big Ivic fan so far, thought he was doing the best he could with the players available. But... not changing formation today when we're chasing the game is a big red flag for me. From the way he's talked I thought he'd be more adaptable in game but we didn't have a single shot in the closing stages. Better to roll the dice and lose than hope that something that isn't working suddenly changes. Jokanovic regularly set us up wrong but then changed things and whether by luck or judgement got a result. Not switching it up today smacks of Quique.

 

He will be gone if we do not win the next two games.
Being negative and stubborn to change his formation will be his downfall.
Gino is probably already opening the draw and looking for a P45.
We have been dreadful and now teams find it so easy to play against us.
Ivic must show he has the skills to do the job. Winning the league in Israel, which is National league level means nothing here.
Two games and that is it.

 

A few people have started raising this point now that results have started to slide - it seemed a good indicator he can instil a winning mentality of clubs, but the relative quality of the league isn't necessarily a huge indicator of anything either way.

One needs only to look at Reading's Serb manager with a similar playing background for Vlad to recognise that managerial appointments can be surprising; Paunovic's only significant managerial achievement previously was once reaching the MLS playoffs with Chicago Fire during four years in charge, and the MLS is probably a similar standard to the Israeli League. However, now look at where Reading are. How many people would have thought he'd have been a better appointment than Vlad based on his record? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

I’d would imagine a it would’ve been hard for Southampton fans to see where Hassenhuttl was going when they were walloped 9-0 a year ago. Equally the case for us when Joka lost game 5,6,7 and 8 in charge of us.

I’d like to see him given time, we had four people in charge of the team last season and that didn’t exactly turn out well.

That said I don’t buy this rubbish about a left back. Fine, we should’ve bought one, but we didn’t. Ivic has to deal with that and pick the best team and formation to get results. If he is genuinely persisting with a system this is failing because he hasn’t got a left back or he doesn’t fancy Kiko there, that is idiotic.

Not having a striker isn’t his fault, though. I don’t think he should go if the next two results go badly, I think he should be given longer with Gray in the team. If beyond that we’re still offering no goal threat against Championship rank and file like Barnsley then it will be difficult to make a case for him.

 

Hassenhuttl pedigree is far greater than Ivic's. RB Leipzig are a far better side than Maccabi Tel Aviv.
I agree with your last paragraph.
I imagine talks are already going on behind the scenes at Watford regarding the position of the manager.
Our scouts have identified a manager in the Tibetan Mountain League.
Somehow I don't think the Dalai Lama is available till the snow melts. Gino might be able to twist his arm, West Watford looks like Tibet at times.

 

Especially with the impending international break.

 

Paunovic also won the U20 World Cup with Serbia tbf

 

Yeah, he's not going to be here much longer. Refusal to adapt even when it's clearly not working only has one outcome.

 

There's an available experienced manager, cruelly sacked by a prem team 2 games from the end of last season, who has experience of winning promotion from the champ. Worth a call ?

 

Let's see what teams he puts out this week and,most importantly,what results we get.
Things could look a whole lot brighter on Saturday evening.
Surely he must realise that his boss is trigger happy and he actually needs to win games at some point.
If not then another new coach will arrive next week.
I'm still in favour of Vlad but he must get his head out of the sand pronto.

 

Petition to amend the club motto to this to better reflect our modern identity.

 

He's burbling nonsense now:

'“He’s an important player, we know he’s a striker who scores, who knows movement and how to finish the action,'

He couldn't be more wrong about Deeney.

 

tin foil hat time, Ivic wants out of this car crash of a club and will persist with 3 5 2.

 

Definitely doesn't sound like he wants to play 4 at the back any time soon tbf. Did we even play 4 at the back in the last few minutes at Barnsley? Gray came on (didn't get the chance to do much mind you), Capoue obviously sat deeper, but where was Gray supposed to be playing? Was Capoue playing as a centre-back?

 

Incredible how just one week ago, everything was pretty hunky dory, yet now some on here are (possibly not without reason) claiming Ivic is on the verge? A very normal club

 

By recent standards Ivic going now would be relatively normal for us.

 

I have to admit he seems to be hung up on this LB issue and I really think he needs to get over it, as like many others on here I believe he has a viable player to play there in Kiko.

We need to get Sarr and Pedro playing in a more natural position that suit them, as neither of them are out and out central strikers, they are both better at running at teams from a deeper position. Sarr is an out and out winger who can cut inside when running from deep, whereas Pedro who can also play that role, can also play a deeper central attacking role tucked in behind a front man, and possibly he should be given a roaming role running at defences from a slightly deeper position than he is currently be asked to do.

If Kiko plays LB then I would play Sema in front of him wide left in a three behind a central striker. The central lone striker is the problem, as we only have three players who can play there, Deeney, Perica or Murray, I am not including Gray as that is not a good position for him. Maybe we should give Murray a shot in this formation, it has to be worth a try as neither of the other two are available right now.

4231: -

Foster
Ngakia Kabasele Ekong Kiko
Capoue Hughes
Sarr Pedro Sema
Murray

 

Another clever smokescreen.
He knows movement as he sees it constantly whizz past him in a blur as he lumbers around the turf.

 

He's expecting to be sacked shortly and wants to be able to note the reason as "....was unable to play 4-3-3 because gino didn't even give me a left back". Switching to 4-3-3 now kills that excuse for his CV.

 

How will people feel about Ivic if we win the next 2 games 1-0 playing 3-5-2?

 

Depends what our xG and xGA are.

If we were fashioning out better quality opportunities than the opposition and won 1-0 in two consecutive matches, then I'd be pretty happy. Being able to make a 5m pass to our own players would help too.

 

The overwhelming feeing would be one of delight. Despite what some people claim, in the end winning is all that matters.

 

Delighted at the points but disappointed that in Ivic's mind it would justify continuing that style. A goal a game and relying on a bit of luck not to concede will not get us promoted. Now he has Gray back and TD on the way, he would be foolish to not give 3 upfront a chance with forwards playing in their correct positions.

 

Obviously delighted with the 6 points, but if the wins were gained by playing safe, nicking a goal, defending to hold onto it, then the concerns would still be there. Ivic has to realise that in English football, against nearly every opposition, his beloved 1-0 needs to become 2-0 to give the same level of match control.