[NOT HAPPENING] Ike Ugbo

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by The Recluse, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Other people have given better answers already, but I'd say that even beyond his skills being able to change up our style with him off the bench or even in a 2 up front would be handy.

    Would be keen to sign him as a second option with one other starting striker coming in.
     
  2. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Do you really think that scouts/managers/owners use whoscoreed.com to assess players in the way you do ?
     
  3. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Maybe not but the more detailed information you can find about a player the better I say.
     
  4. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    How do you know in what way I use whoscored?!

    Though while we're at it, I do think its rating system does a pretty good job somehow - of the matches, teams, leagues and players that I've watched and then later looked at what ratings they get given on whoscored the scores do often tally fairly well with the opinions I'd already held just based on having used my eyes.

    In turn, because for the players I do know I think it generally does a decent job of assessing them, it is then very useful as a starting point for trying to identify possible good players as individuals, or in certain teams and leagues, that I don't know so well already. However, having identified players on whoscored I'd still watch a fair amount of highlights of them before coming to my own assessment, and it's not always the same. I've never used it as the principal method for assessing a player, but it's a useful research tool and I still trust it enough that I think it provides a decent supporting argument for evaluating a player's ability.

    It does throw up a fair number of cases that I disagree with or don't understand, but I think its scores probably get in the right ball-park about 75% of the time.

    As for scouts/managers/owners, supposedly clubs like Brentford are very big in to using analytics and stats to identify and assess potential transfers, and didn't Giaretta suggest we've started moving towards a bit more of that approach recently? I think Liverpool are also considered to be pioneers of such an approach. So what they're doing may not be a million miles away, although the clubs with more of a focus and budget on such methods might well have developed their own similar databases and numerical evaluation tools for identifying and rating players, rather than only relying on whoscored's one.

    Whoscored does claim its ratings are "currently used among media giants, bookmakers and football clubs":
    https://www.whoscored.com/Explanations
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  5. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    According to WhoScored, Deeney has been our fourth best player this season. Kiko is 13th, Troost-Ekong 15th and Bachmann 16th. And Lazaar performed better than Sanchez.

    The problem with it is that football is too fluid and nuanced to be neatly categorised like this. It can tell you an action happened but nothing about the quality of that action. And of course, is completely silent on crucial parts like positioning and reading of the game as they can't be quantified.

    I'm sure all clubs look at the underlying metrics but if any of them actually put any stock in WhoScored ratings that would be incredibly amateurish.
     
    PowerJugs, barely1egal, reids and 2 others like this.
  6. Famously, of course, those are the sort of players who are cheap and easy to find.
     
  7. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    As I say, it sometimes throws up a few confusing ones. I said " I think its scores probably get in the right ball-park about 75% of the time" (I might even stretch that to 80%) and your picking out a few examples which at face value might be confusing does not go against that. However, when you look up and down the scores for our squad, in general our best players are more towards the top and our worst players are more towards the bottom. If you look at the ratings for the Championship as a whole you'll similarly find that the generally considered best players are more towards the top and the worst players more towards the bottom.

    T-E for instance has generally been towards the worst of our starting XI. His score is also noticeably behind that of Sierralta and very marginally behind that of Kabasele, and I think it could be reasonably argued that it's the correct assessment of the quality of those three CBs.

    Goalkeepers' scores can also be trickier to assess, especially when ours generally have had so little to do, but I think it's a good sign that the scores for Bachmann and Foster are near identical, when their performances have also been near identical this season.

    As for Deeney, I wonder if it's simply explained by them giving penalty goals the same weight as goals scored from open play - in fact I've already sent them a message asking whether it's the case.

    Femenia's rating is really the only one there which I struggle to understand.

    Following on from the above, some of the ratings can be understood by simply knowing the quirks of the algorithm - a key one is that players with more sub appearances tend to get a headline score that is lower than those who might have played more as a starter, as the sub appearances tend to weigh their score down a bit. For players where a significant chunk of their appearances have been made as a sub, one always needs to actually look at their profile so you can see what their ratings were for matches in which they started - as their player profile then shows a breakdown of their ratings as a starter separated out from their ratings as a sub.

    With the difference between Lazaar and Sanchez, it's splitting hairs. They're both amongst our worst players and are both towards the bottom of the ratings for our squad. Sanchez also had a higher score for his 1 start than Lazaar did for his one start (albeit Lazaar's 6.8 was still generous). Some of the rest can be explained by the above subs issue and Sanchez often just coming on for a few minutes with little to do.

    That is true, but once you start summarising the results of so many actions over the course of a season you can still arrive at something which has meaning. As I say, the fact that its ratings more often than not tally fairly well with what I'd already observed with my own eyes is a reassuring sign.

    And again to reiterate, I wouldn't solely take the headline score as the only evidence for something, but I do think it's helpful and often points in the right direction. It's a good starting point for researching and discussing players, rather than being the most important thing you'd base a decision on.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
    luke_golden likes this.
  8. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I remember Bachmann was given TotW by WhoScored after the Cov game, didn't have to make any worldie saves, but had a lot to do, whereas I've seen him have better (if quieter) games and he didn't get in
     
  9. Chiswell

    Chiswell Academy Graduate


    This discussion makes me think of a business course I went on once. There are those people who are driven by the numbers themselves (often seen as an American approach) and those who look to do what they know is right and then they look to the numbers to check that those numbers prove what they are doing is right (often viewed as a Japanese way of doing things).

    So in football, you can see that a player can maybe run further or faster than others but you look at the stats to check yourself?
     
    Smudger likes this.
  10. westbridgfordhornet

    westbridgfordhornet First Year Pro

    And the 71 year old Asmir Begovic has been regularly throwing the ball into his own net and bringing down opposing forwards on the South Coast again this season and still won his way into Championship Team of the Year. Fantastic pick from the panel there...was Garth Crooks drafted in as a consultant to help them?

    I reckon there were only around 22 goalkeepers ahead of him for that honour including Bachmann and our Cycling GK!
     
  11. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Still think we sign this kid as well and maybe Borre.

    Wouldn’t be surprised if we have a striker force of;

    Pedro, Borre, Ugbo, Fletcher, and Deeney next season.

    Think we would want to loan/sell Success, Gray, Perica.
     
  12. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Would be satisfied with this, if we can get Deeney off the books somehow, even better, but I suspect it'll be Ugbo or Santos Borre, Deeney, Gray and Fletcher, with Perica offloaded and maybe Success and Penaranda too
     
    Markoa$ likes this.
  13. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    Prepare to be very disappointed...
     
    barely1egal, Markoa$ and Hairyfrog like this.
  14. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Fulham, Schalke, Sassuolo and Genk apparently also interested in signing him. Would like to think we'd be favourites to sign him out of that lot, can't wait for Bournemouth to gazump us with a mahoosive bid
     
    lowerrous likes this.
  15. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Yeah you’re right. Im just hoping.
     
  16. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    upload_2021-5-21_6-58-4.gif
     
  17. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

  18. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

  20. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

  21. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Allnigeriasoccer.com can exclusively report that Watford have pulled out of the race to sign Super Eagles hopeful Ike Ugbo in the summer transfer window.


    Watford thought they had a good chance of signing the Chelsea-owned striker due to their relationship with his bona fide agent Collins John, who turned out for the Hornets during his playing career, but they are set to miss out on his signature.
     
  22. WalthamstowHornet

    WalthamstowHornet Academy Graduate

    Shame. Presumably this being confirmed will allow us to finally announce Tammy Abraham.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  23. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Us having a good relationship with Collins John is equivalent to me having a good relationship with the bloke who sat across from me on the train last week
     
  24. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Us signing Dennis suggested this would be the case.
     
  25. I hope you used a condom
     
    WatfordTalk likes this.
  26. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Welcome to Watford Ike.
     
  27. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    ;)
     
  28. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    We don't need another hero.
     
  29. Rookery Refugee

    Rookery Refugee Reservist

    If only we'd gotten him that boot with the 3 inch sole to even out his short leg.
     
    Hairyfrog likes this.
  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    It's a shame though, as I was told he's simply the best, better than all the rest, better than anyone.
     
  31. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Scored the winner tonight for Chelsea in their pre-season game against the scum/Muff. Surest sign yet. #WelcomeIke
     
  32. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Ike Ugbo is a horn
    Is a horn
    Is a horn,
    Ike Ugbo is a horn
    He hates Bournemouth.
     
  33. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Off to Genk for 3.5m euros. Almost as though our supposed interest was just put out there to try to generate some buzz around him...
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  34. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Didn't want him anyway.
     
  35. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Fletcher is a more rounded player
     

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